[RE-wrenches] EnPhase/Racking Best Fit
Chris Meier
chrism at unirac.com
Mon Jan 25 11:13:22 PST 2010
I wanted to take a second and respond to some of this email string.
Nick and Danna, Thanks for the input on the Clicksys product.
We have a few product improvements to get done, but to address some of these issues Clicksys 1.0 was designed to be a light weight solution for lower wind and snow loads. During our review of the new product design it was found that up 80% of the time for a residential installation of the racking system is the attachment to the roof. So our first focus was to get some of this time back. We also realized that most rail systems are over designed given the normal installation of 4 ft spacing at 90 mph wind speed, and with these lower conditions covering the majority of the US rail sales we decided to target these conditions for the initial design. This is why Clicksys 1.0 is limited under snow loading higher winds.
As far as breakage and splice placement, I have never had any complaints of breakage of the slider, bolt or nut used as an Enphase mount or for top mounting. I have had one galling issue come up, but this was because the lack of anti seize and a drill driver. Please give me a call if you have had any issues with this. The installation of Clicksys does require one splice per run of rail (Three rails splice together) to be installed over a foot. The purpose of this is to hold the rail from horizontal movement. This placement is best done on the first rail splice in each row, or the installer can field drill two holes over any foot at any part of the rail if you do not care to align the first splice over a foot.
As always, I truly value both good and bad information this will help in our future design efforts.
Please feel free to contact me directly for any improvements or concerns you may have.
Chris Meier
Residental Program Manager
UniRac, Inc.
1411 Broadway Blvd. NE
Albuquerque, NM 87102-1545
Ph: 505-242-6411
Fx: 505-242-6412
Email: chrism at unirac.com <mailto:chrism at unirac.com >
Web: http://www.unirac.com <http://www.unirac.com/>
________________________________
From: re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Nick Soleil
Sent: Monday, January 18, 2010 2:16 PM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] EnPhase/Racking Best Fit
I was involved in Beta Tests for Clicksys, and had to deal with mounting Enphase with the Clicksys Beam, which was a pain. In the end, we decided not to use the product. When you lay out the rails, the rail splices can't be on top of the feet? The amount of planning and layout makes it not ideal. I second the other comments about the clips, too.
Nick Soleil
Project Manager
Advanced Alternative Energy Solutions, LLC
PO Box 657
Petaluma, CA 94953
Cell: 707-321-2937
Office: 707-789-9537
Fax: 707-769-9037
________________________________
From: Dana Brandt <dana at ecotechenergy.com>
To: RE-wrenches <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>
Sent: Mon, January 18, 2010 10:06:18 AM
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] EnPhase/Racking Best Fit
I'll second that! We had good luck with the little clips for the Enphase, but there's a lot of opportunity for having to do a lot of work over again if anything goes wrong.
This is my disappointment with the Clicksys in general. In my opinion, the genious of the SolarMount is the T-bolt that allows you to install top clamps as you go instead of having to slide everything down from the end of the rail. Clicksys does away with this. When you add in the Enphase to the Clicksys, you have a very non-flexible installation. All the top clamps have to be in place before the inverters are installed. If you miss or break a clamp you have to take all your inverters off and slide all the clips off to get a new one in place.
Also on my list of why I'm underwhelmed by Clicksys is that with our 25lb snow load here you need an attachment every 24". In my mind this makes them only practical on standing seam roof.
I'm a big fan of Unirac, but I think they missed on this one.
Dana
Dana Brandt
Ecotech Energy Systems, LLC
www.ecotechenergy.com
dana at ecotechenergy.com
360.510.0433
On Sat, Jan 16, 2010 at 3:06 PM, <solarepiphany at gmail.com> wrote:
Erika,
I can tell you from experience that the Unirac Clicksys is NOT an ideal candidate for Enphase applications. The reason is that if you have a problem with a mounting clip that galls up or breaks, you have to disassemble the entire racks worth of sliders and microinverters in order to replace. The only way to slide on a replacement is from the end of the rail or a splice point. Reeeeeally a pain.
Take care,
Eric Thomas
Founder
Solar Epiphany LLC
Seattle
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
-----Original Message-----
From: re-wrenches-request at lists.re-wrenches.org
Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2010 02:04:07
To: <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>
Subject: RE-wrenches Digest, Vol 3, Issue 63
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: trapeziod modules (William Dorsett)
2. Re: enphase and racks (frenergy)
3. Re: discharging Rolls batteries (Bruce Geddes)
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Message: 1
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2010 20:58:29 -0800 (PST)
From: William Dorsett <wmdorsett at sbcglobal.net>
To: RE-wrenches <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>,
jryago at netscape.com
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] trapeziod modules
Message-ID: <691869.43614.qm at web81907.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Jeff, Sharp is the only manufacturer I know of that puts out at least triangular modules that can come close to forming a trapezoid.
Bill Dorsett
SunwrightS
1715 Leavenworth
Manhattan, KS 66502
Home/Office 785/539=1956
Cell 785/564-2583
wmdorsett at sbcglobal.net
See Amory Lovins July 08 on Charlie Rose
http://www.charlierose.com/guests/amory-lovins
--- On Fri, 1/15/10, Jeff Yago <jryago at netscape.com> wrote:
From: Jeff Yago <jryago at netscape.com>
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] trapeziod modules
To: "RE-wrenches" <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>
Date: Friday, January 15, 2010, 9:27 PM
I have a demonstration project that will require only a handfull of modules that need to form a round circle when grouped together.? I need a complete circle that will have a combined output of 400 to 600 watts, depending on module size.? I have seen several large modules this shape in recent articles about solar "sun-flower" shaped street lighting, but I do not need anything that large and its not for a street light application.? Anybody know a supplier that will sell in small quantities?
Thanks,
Jeff Yago
jryago at netscape.com
_____________________________________________________________
Netscape.? Just the Net You Need.
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Message: 2
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2010 21:58:31 -0800
From: "frenergy" <frenergy at psln.com>
To: <erika at repowersolutions.com>, "RE-wrenches"
<re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] enphase and racks
Message-ID: <7CD75A78B3E240158FAC9A4FA7777193 at D8XG8YH1>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Erika,
Check out: http://www.enphaseenergy.com/downloads/EnphaseAppNote_RackingCompatibility.pdf
from Enphase's website.
Bill
Feather River Solar Electric
4291 Nekson St.
Taylorsville, CA 95983
----- Original Message -----
From: Erika M. Weliczko
To: 'RE-wrenches'
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 5:03 PM
Subject: [RE-wrenches] enphase and racks
Any thoughts on which rack hardware is most and least conducive to hosting enphase inverters?
TIA,
Erika
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Message: 3
Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2010 22:58:15 +1300
From: "Bruce Geddes" <bruce.g at ruralinzone.net>
To: "RE-wrenches" <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] discharging Rolls batteries
Message-ID: <450AFCBD21A6492E9877F2EFCC7A501A at BrucePC>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Re: [RE-wrenches] discharging Rolls batteriesHi Hugh.
Positive electrode: PbO2 + 3H +HSO4 + 2e = PbSO4 + 2H2O (e= electron)
Negative electrode: Pb + HSO4 = PbSO4 + H +2e
Sorry, I can't insert the superscript symbols to show electrical charge. If it is confusing let me know and I will repost this with the charge in brackets following the ion.
In cold conditions the ion transfer rate slows so in effect the internal resistance of the cell rises. It simply can't deliver the electrons under load. If the electrons are taken out at a reduced rate then the Vdrop of the "internal resistance" is lowered and the cell terminal voltage stays up for longer.
So, to use your analogy of the bank, in cold weather the money counters operate more slowly and if the temperature rises they return to normal speed. The money is still there, it is just the rate at which it comes out that varies. In cold weather the counters simply won't deliver as much before they say "my fingers are too cold, that's all you get today!"
Bruce Geddes
PowerOn
----- Original Message -----
From: Hugh
To: RE-wrenches
Sent: Saturday, January 16, 2010 12:25 PM
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] discharging Rolls batteries
hi
We know that batteries deliver less amphours at low temperature and at high currents. Volts drop quicker. That's my starting point. My question that I still do not hear an answer to is this:
If the battery is a bank account and its harder to get the money out in cold weather and when you want to get your hands on a lot at once... Does this actually mean that some of the money gets lost? What happens to it? Is it perhaps available later when the bank warms up or the demand gets less hectic? Is there really less money in there or does it just seem like less due to the conditions?
I notice that Ah capacity is actually defined as how much Amphours you can get out before the battery reaches a certain terminal voltage. I am wondering whether it is the ability to maintain voltage that is the limiting factor whereas the chemicals in there can still deliver amphours, given the right temperature and time later. You can certainly see recovery take place when a battery warms up and/or operates on lighter loads.
One last time what happens to the chemicals (lead and lead oxide) that represent Amphours of charge in the battery plates? For me this is a little bit like current of 10 amps entering one end of a piece of wire and only 9 amps coming out the other end. I understand that the volts go down due to voltage drop (in this analogy) but loss of current is entirely a different matter.
Thanks for any help with this rather obscure question.
Hugh
A lead-acid battery is an electro-chemical processor (just like you and other living things). When you and your battery are cold or hot, performance changes because the chemical process is affected by temperature. Cold equals sluggish chemical reaction, reduces the capacity to perform work, and affects battery performance linearly. Battery chemistry is well understood. When I get some time, I'll google for temperature-based formulas and charts unless someone else posts the links first.
----- Original Message -----
From: Hugh
To: RE-wrenches
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 12:02 AM
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] discharging Rolls batteries
Hi Jamie,
Remember, as batteries cool actual capacity is reduced, so if 200AH is 50% @ 25C it is significantly more than 50% @ 5C. Thus, you are discharging more deeply.
But earlier you put it this way:
Regarding temperature effects on capacity, earlier responses are spot on as the lower capacity is totally as a result of slower reaction times as a result of lower temperatures.
There is an issue here that I need to understand better. You state that a battery has lower capacity in low temperatures. Suppose you take a fully charged, 400 Ah battery and cool it down to -5 degrees C where according to our numbers it will only have 80% of its nominal capacity. You then remove 160 Ah (say 10 amps for 16 hours). It will then be 50% discharged. Now warm it up again to 20 degrees or whatever. My question is: will you only have 200 amphours left in it now? And if so, what happened to the other 40 amphours? Does low temperature operation actually lose amphours, or is it just more sluggish? What is the chemical explanation for the lost amphours?
I understand batteries as a chemical process of converting amphours into chemical changes. I assume that a given amount of electrical charge converts a given amount of lead into lead sulphate (and likewise) back again. I understand that cooling will make this process less efficient and thereby result in a rise in charging voltage and a drop in discharging voltage. But does a low temperature actually mean that a given amount of lead being converted to sulphate actually give you less amphours electrically?
(I have similar questions in relation to Peukert's equation where high discharge rates impact on the amphour capacity. The capacity apparently 'recovers' when the discharge rate is reduced. To what extent is the capacity actually lost by using high discharge rates and to what extent is it just a voltage effect that impacts on the terminal voltage, rather than the actual chemical state of the battery?)
I hope you can follow my descriptions.
--
Hugh Piggott
Scoraig Wind Electric
Scotland
http://www.scoraigwind.co.uk
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Hugh Piggott
Scoraig Wind Electric
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http://www.scoraigwind.co.uk
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