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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I wanted to take a second and respond to
some of this email string.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Nick and Danna, Thanks for the input on the
Clicksys product.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>We have a few product improvements to get
done, but to address some of these issues Clicksys 1.0 was designed to be a light
weight solution for lower wind and snow loads. During our review of the new
product design it was found that up 80% of the time for a residential
installation of the racking system is the attachment to the roof. So our first
focus was to get some of this time back. We also realized that most rail
systems are over designed given the normal installation of 4 ft spacing at 90
mph wind speed, and with these lower conditions covering the majority of the <st1:country-region
w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">US</st1:place></st1:country-region> rail sales we
decided to target these conditions for the initial design. This is why Clicksys
1.0 is limited under snow loading higher winds.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>As far as breakage and splice placement, I
have never had any complaints of breakage of the slider, bolt or nut used as an
Enphase mount or for top mounting. I have had one galling issue come up, but
this was because the lack of anti seize and a drill driver. Please give me a
call if you have had any issues with this. The installation of Clicksys does
require one splice per run of rail (Three rails splice together) to be
installed over a foot. The purpose of this is to hold the rail from horizontal movement.
This placement is best done on the first rail splice in each row, or the
installer can field drill two holes over any foot at any part of the rail if
you do not care to align the first splice over a foot. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>As always, I truly value both good and bad
information this will help in our future design efforts. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Please feel free to contact me directly
for any improvements or concerns you may have.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoAutoSig style='margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><st1:PersonName
w:st="on"><strong><b><font size=4 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:14.0pt;color:black'>Chris Meier</span></font></b></strong></st1:PersonName><strong><b><font
size=4 color=navy face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:14.0pt;
color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></font></b></strong></p>
<p class=MsoAutoSig style='margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=2
color=black face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'>Residental
Program Manager</span></font><font color=navy><span style='color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoAutoSig style='margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=2
color=black face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'>UniRac,
Inc.</span></font><font color=black><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoAutoSig style='margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><u1:Street u2:st="on"><u1:address u2:st="on"><st1:Street
w:st="on"><st1:address w:st="on"><font size=2 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'>1411 Broadway Blvd. NE</span></font></st1:address></st1:Street></u1:address></u1:Street><font
color=black><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoAutoSig style='margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><u1:place u2:st="on"><u1:City u2:st="on"><st1:place
w:st="on"><st1:City w:st="on"><font size=2 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'>Albuquerque</span></font></st1:City><font
size=2 color=black><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'></u1:City>, <u1:State u2:st="on"><st1:State
w:st="on">NM</u1:State></st1:State> <u1:PostalCode u2:st="on"><st1:PostalCode
w:st="on">87102-1545</u1:PostalCode></st1:PostalCode></span></font></st1:place></u1:place><font
color=black><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoAutoSig style='margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=2
color=black face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'>Ph:
505-242-6411 </span></font><font color=black><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoAutoSig style='margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=2
color=black face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'>Fx:
505-242-6412</span></font><font color=black><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoAutoSig style='margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=2
color=black face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'>Email:
</span></font><font size=2 color="#003399"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
color:#003399'><a href="mailto:chrism@unirac.com "
title="mailto:chrism@unirac.com
blocked::mailto:chrism@unirac.com "><font
size=3><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>chrism@unirac.com</span></font></a></span></font><font
size=2 color=black><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'> </span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoAutoSig style='margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=2
color=black face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'>Web:
</span></font><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:black'><a href="http://www.unirac.com/" target="_blank"
title="http://www.unirac.com/
blocked::http://www.unirac.com/
http://www.unirac.com/"><font
size=3 color="#003399" face="Times New Roman"
title="http://www.unirac.com/
blocked::http://www.unirac.com/"><span
title="http://www.unirac.com/
blocked::http://www.unirac.com/"><span
title="http://www.unirac.com/
blocked::http://www.unirac.com/
http://www.unirac.com/"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman";color:#003399'><span
title="http://www.unirac.com/">http://www.unirac.com</span></span></span></font></span></a></span></font><font
size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
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face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>
<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center tabindex=-1>
</span></font></div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org
[mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org] <b><span style='font-weight:
bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Nick Soleil<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Monday, January 18, 2010
2:16 PM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> <st1:PersonName w:st="on">RE-wrenches</st1:PersonName><br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [<st1:PersonName
w:st="on">RE-wrenches</st1:PersonName>] EnPhase/Racking Best Fit</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face=Arial><span style='font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>I was involved in Beta Tests for Clicksys, and had to deal
with mounting Enphase with the Clicksys Beam, which was a pain. In the
end, we decided not to use the product. When you lay out the rails, the
rail splices can't be on top of the feet? The amount of planning and
layout makes it not ideal. I second the other comments about the clips,
too.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face=Arial><span style='font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:Arial'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face=Arial><span style='font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Nick Soleil<br>
Project Manager<br>
Advanced Alternative Energy Solutions, LLC<br>
<st1:address w:st="on"><st1:Street w:st="on">PO Box</st1:Street> 657</st1:address><br>
<st1:place w:st="on"><st1:City w:st="on">Petaluma</st1:City>, <st1:State w:st="on">CA</st1:State>
<st1:PostalCode w:st="on">94953</st1:PostalCode></st1:place><br>
Cell: 707-321-2937<br>
Office: 707-789-9537<br>
Fax: 707-769-9037<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face=Arial><span style='font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face=Arial><span style='font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><font size=2
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>
<hr size=1 width="100%" align=center>
</span></font></div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font
size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> Dana
Brandt <dana@ecotechenergy.com><br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> <st1:PersonName w:st="on">RE-wrenches</st1:PersonName>
<re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org><br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Mon, January 18, 2010
10:06:18 AM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [<st1:PersonName
w:st="on">RE-wrenches</st1:PersonName>] EnPhase/Racking Best Fit<br>
</span></font><br>
<meta http-equiv=x-dns-prefetch-control content=off>
I'll second that! We had good luck with the little clips for the Enphase, but
there's a lot of opportunity for having to do a lot of work over again if
anything goes wrong. <br>
<br>
This is my disappointment with the Clicksys in general. In my opinion, the
genious of the SolarMount is the T-bolt that allows you to install top clamps
as you go instead of having to slide everything down from the end of the rail.
Clicksys does away with this. When you add in the Enphase to the Clicksys, you
have a very non-flexible installation. All the top clamps have to be in place
before the inverters are installed. If you miss or break a clamp you have to
take all your inverters off and slide all the clips off to get a new one in
place.<br>
<br>
Also on my list of why I'm underwhelmed by Clicksys is that with our 25lb snow
load here you need an attachment every 24". In my mind this makes them
only practical on standing seam roof. <br>
<br>
I'm a big fan of Unirac, but I think they missed on this one.<br>
<br>
Dana<br clear=all>
<br>
<br>
Dana Brandt<br>
Ecotech Energy Systems, LLC<br>
<a href="http://www.ecotechenergy.com" target="_blank">www.ecotechenergy.com</a><br>
<a href="mailto:dana@ecotechenergy.com" target="_blank"
ymailto="mailto:dana@ecotechenergy.com">dana@ecotechenergy.com</a><br>
360.510.0433<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>On Sat, Jan 16, 2010 at 3:06 PM, <<a
href="mailto:solarepiphany@gmail.com" target="_blank"
ymailto="mailto:solarepiphany@gmail.com">solarepiphany@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>Erika,<br>
<br>
I can tell you from experience that the Unirac Clicksys is NOT an ideal
candidate for Enphase applications. The reason is that if you have a problem
with a mounting clip that galls up or breaks, you have to disassemble the
entire racks worth of sliders and microinverters in order to replace. The only
way to slide on a replacement is from the end of the rail or a splice point.
Reeeeeally a pain.<br>
<br>
Take care,<br>
<br>
Eric Thomas<br>
Founder<br>
Solar Epiphany LLC<br>
<st1:City w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Seattle</st1:place></st1:City><br>
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry<br>
<br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: <a href="mailto:re-wrenches-request@lists.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank"
ymailto="mailto:re-wrenches-request@lists.re-wrenches.org">re-wrenches-request@lists.re-wrenches.org</a><br>
Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2010 02:04:07<br>
To: <<a href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank"
ymailto="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>><br>
Subject: <st1:PersonName w:st="on">RE-wrenches</st1:PersonName> Digest, Vol 3,
Issue 63<br>
<br>
Send <st1:PersonName w:st="on">RE-wrenches</st1:PersonName> mailing list
submissions to<br>
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or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to<br>
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When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific<br>
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<br>
<br>
Today's Topics:<br>
<br>
1. Re: trapeziod modules (William Dorsett)<br>
2. Re: enphase and racks (frenergy)<br>
3. Re: discharging Rolls batteries (Bruce Geddes)<br>
<br>
<br>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 1<br>
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2010 20:58:29 -0800 (PST)<br>
From: William Dorsett <<a href="mailto:wmdorsett@sbcglobal.net"
target="_blank" ymailto="mailto:wmdorsett@sbcglobal.net">wmdorsett@sbcglobal.net</a>><br>
To: <st1:PersonName w:st="on">RE-wrenches</st1:PersonName> <<a
href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank"
ymailto="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>>,<br>
<a href="mailto:jryago@netscape.com" target="_blank"
ymailto="mailto:jryago@netscape.com">jryago@netscape.com</a><br>
Subject: Re: [<st1:PersonName w:st="on">RE-wrenches</st1:PersonName>] trapeziod
modules<br>
Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:691869.43614.qm@web81907.mail.mud.yahoo.com"
target="_blank" ymailto="mailto:691869.43614.qm@web81907.mail.mud.yahoo.com">691869.43614.qm@web81907.mail.mud.yahoo.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"<br>
<br>
Jeff, Sharp is the only manufacturer I know of that puts out at least
triangular modules that can come close to forming a trapezoid.<br>
<br>
Bill Dorsett<br>
SunwrightS<br>
1715 <st1:City w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Leavenworth</st1:place></st1:City><br>
<st1:place w:st="on"><st1:City w:st="on">Manhattan</st1:City>, <st1:State
w:st="on">KS</st1:State> <st1:PostalCode w:st="on">66502</st1:PostalCode></st1:place><br>
Home/Office 785/539=1956<br>
Cell 785/564-2583<br>
<a href="mailto:wmdorsett@sbcglobal.net" target="_blank"
ymailto="mailto:wmdorsett@sbcglobal.net">wmdorsett@sbcglobal.net</a><br>
<br>
See Amory Lovins July 08 on Charlie Rose<br>
<a href="http://www.charlierose.com/guests/amory-lovins" target="_blank">http://www.charlierose.com/guests/amory-lovins</a><br>
<br>
--- On Fri, 1/15/10, Jeff Yago <<a href="mailto:jryago@netscape.com"
target="_blank" ymailto="mailto:jryago@netscape.com">jryago@netscape.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
<br>
<br>
From: Jeff Yago <<a href="mailto:jryago@netscape.com" target="_blank"
ymailto="mailto:jryago@netscape.com">jryago@netscape.com</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [<st1:PersonName w:st="on">RE-wrenches</st1:PersonName>] trapeziod
modules<br>
To: "<st1:PersonName w:st="on">RE-wrenches</st1:PersonName>" <<a
href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank"
ymailto="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>><br>
Date: Friday, January 15, 2010, 9:27 PM<br>
<br>
<br>
I have a demonstration project that will require only a handfull of modules
that need to form a round circle when grouped together.? I need a complete
circle that will have a combined output of 400 to 600 watts, depending on
module size.? I have seen several large modules this shape in recent articles
about solar "sun-flower" shaped street lighting, but I do not need
anything that large and its not for a street light application.? Anybody know a
supplier that will sell in small quantities?<br>
<br>
Thanks,<br>
<br>
Jeff Yago<br>
<a href="mailto:jryago@netscape.com" target="_blank"
ymailto="mailto:jryago@netscape.com">jryago@netscape.com</a><br>
<br>
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Message: 2<br>
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2010 21:58:31 -0800<br>
From: "frenergy" <<a href="mailto:frenergy@psln.com"
target="_blank" ymailto="mailto:frenergy@psln.com">frenergy@psln.com</a>><br>
To: <<a href="mailto:erika@repowersolutions.com" target="_blank"
ymailto="mailto:erika@repowersolutions.com">erika@repowersolutions.com</a>>,
"<st1:PersonName w:st="on">RE-wrenches</st1:PersonName>"<br>
<<a
href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank"
ymailto="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [<st1:PersonName w:st="on">RE-wrenches</st1:PersonName>] enphase
and racks<br>
Message-ID: <7CD75A78B3E240158FAC9A4FA7777193@D8XG8YH1><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"<br>
<br>
Erika,<br>
<br>
Check out: <a
href="http://www.enphaseenergy.com/downloads/EnphaseAppNote_RackingCompatibility.pdf"
target="_blank">http://www.enphaseenergy.com/downloads/EnphaseAppNote_RackingCompatibility.pdf</a><br>
<br>
from Enphase's website.<br>
<br>
Bill<br>
<br>
<st1:place w:st="on">Feather River</st1:place> Solar Electric<br>
<st1:Street w:st="on"><st1:address w:st="on">4291 Nekson St</st1:address></st1:Street>.<br>
<st1:place w:st="on"><st1:City w:st="on">Taylorsville</st1:City>, <st1:State
w:st="on">CA</st1:State> <st1:PostalCode w:st="on">95983</st1:PostalCode></st1:place><br>
<br>
<br>
----- Original Message -----<br>
From: Erika M. Weliczko<br>
To: '<st1:PersonName w:st="on">RE-wrenches</st1:PersonName>'<br>
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 5:03 PM<br>
Subject: [<st1:PersonName w:st="on">RE-wrenches</st1:PersonName>] enphase
and racks<br>
<br>
<br>
Any thoughts on which rack hardware is most and least conducive to
hosting enphase inverters?<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
TIA,<br>
<br>
Erika<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
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Message: 3<br>
Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2010 22:58:15 +1300<br>
From: "Bruce Geddes" <<a href="mailto:bruce.g@ruralinzone.net"
target="_blank" ymailto="mailto:bruce.g@ruralinzone.net">bruce.g@ruralinzone.net</a>><br>
To: "<st1:PersonName w:st="on">RE-wrenches</st1:PersonName>" <<a
href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank"
ymailto="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [<st1:PersonName w:st="on">RE-wrenches</st1:PersonName>]
discharging Rolls batteries<br>
Message-ID: <450AFCBD21A6492E9877F2EFCC7A501A@BrucePC><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"<br>
<br>
Re: [<st1:PersonName w:st="on">RE-wrenches</st1:PersonName>] discharging Rolls
batteriesHi Hugh.<br>
<br>
Positive electrode: PbO2 + 3H +HSO4 + 2e = PbSO4 + 2H2O (e=
electron)<br>
<br>
Negative electrode: Pb + HSO4 = PbSO4 + H +2e<br>
<br>
Sorry, I can't insert the superscript symbols to show electrical charge.
If it is confusing let me know and I will repost this with the charge in
brackets following the ion.<br>
<br>
In cold conditions the ion transfer rate slows so in effect the internal
resistance of the cell rises. It simply can't deliver the electrons under
load. If the electrons are taken out at a reduced rate then the Vdrop of
the "internal resistance" is lowered and the cell terminal voltage
stays up for longer.<br>
<br>
So, to use your analogy of the bank, in cold weather the money counters operate
more slowly and if the temperature rises they return to normal speed. The
money is still there, it is just the rate at which it comes out that varies.
In cold weather the counters simply won't deliver as much before they say
"my fingers are too cold, that's all you get today!"<br>
<br>
Bruce Geddes<br>
PowerOn<br>
----- Original Message -----<br>
From: Hugh<br>
To: <st1:PersonName w:st="on">RE-wrenches</st1:PersonName><br>
Sent: Saturday, January 16, 2010 12:25 PM<br>
Subject: Re: [<st1:PersonName w:st="on">RE-wrenches</st1:PersonName>]
discharging Rolls batteries<br>
<br>
<br>
hi<br>
<br>
<br>
We know that batteries deliver less amphours at low temperature and at
high currents. Volts drop quicker. That's my starting point.
My question that I still do not hear an answer to is this:<br>
<br>
<br>
If the battery is a bank account and its harder to get the money out in
cold weather and when you want to get your hands on a lot at once... Does
this actually mean that some of the money gets lost? What happens to it?
Is it perhaps available later when the bank warms up or the demand gets
less hectic? Is there really less money in there or does it just seem
like less due to the conditions?<br>
<br>
<br>
I notice that Ah capacity is actually defined as how much Amphours you
can get out before the battery reaches a certain terminal voltage. I am
wondering whether it is the ability to maintain voltage that is the limiting
factor whereas the chemicals in there can still deliver amphours, given
the right temperature and time later. You can certainly see
recovery take place when a battery warms up and/or operates on lighter loads.<br>
<br>
<br>
One last time what happens to the chemicals (lead and lead oxide) that
represent Amphours of charge in the battery plates? For me this is a
little bit like current of 10 amps entering one end of a piece of wire
and only 9 amps coming out the other end. I understand that the volts go
down due to voltage drop (in this analogy) but loss of current is entirely a
different matter.<br>
<br>
<br>
Thanks for any help with this rather obscure question.<br>
<br>
<br>
Hugh<br>
<br>
<br>
A lead-acid battery is an electro-chemical processor (just like
you and other living things). When you and your battery are cold or hot,
performance changes because the chemical process is affected by temperature.
Cold equals sluggish chemical reaction, reduces the capacity to perform work,
and affects battery performance linearly. <st1:place w:st="on">Battery</st1:place>
chemistry is well understood. When I get some time, I'll google for
temperature-based formulas and charts unless someone else posts the links
first.<br>
<br>
----- Original Message -----<br>
From: Hugh<br>
To: <st1:PersonName w:st="on">RE-wrenches</st1:PersonName><br>
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 12:02 AM<br>
Subject: Re: [<st1:PersonName w:st="on">RE-wrenches</st1:PersonName>]
discharging Rolls batteries<br>
<br>
<br>
Hi Jamie,<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Remember, as batteries cool actual capacity is
reduced, so if 200AH is 50% @ 25C it is significantly more than 50% @ 5C.
Thus, you are discharging more deeply.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
But earlier you put it this way:<br>
<br>
<br>
Regarding temperature effects on capacity,
earlier responses are spot on as the lower capacity is totally as a result of
slower reaction times as a result of lower temperatures.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
There is an issue here that I need to understand better.
You state that a battery has lower capacity in low temperatures.
Suppose you take a fully charged, 400 Ah battery and cool it down to -5
degrees C where according to our numbers it will only have 80% of its nominal
capacity. You then remove 160 Ah (say 10 amps for 16 hours). It
will then be 50% discharged. Now warm it up again to 20 degrees or
whatever. My question is: will you only have 200 amphours left in it now?
And if so, what happened to the other 40 amphours? Does low
temperature operation actually lose amphours, or is it just more sluggish?
What is the chemical explanation for the lost amphours?<br>
<br>
<br>
I understand batteries as a chemical process of converting
amphours into chemical changes. I assume that a given amount of
electrical charge converts a given amount of lead into lead sulphate (and
likewise) back again. I understand that cooling will make this process
less efficient and thereby result in a rise in charging voltage and a drop in
discharging voltage. But does a low temperature actually mean that a
given amount of lead being converted to sulphate actually give you less
amphours electrically?<br>
<br>
<br>
(I have similar questions in relation to Peukert's equation
where high discharge rates impact on the amphour capacity. The capacity
apparently 'recovers' when the discharge rate is reduced. To what extent
is the capacity actually lost by using high discharge rates and to what extent
is it just a voltage effect that impacts on the terminal voltage, rather than
the actual chemical state of the battery?)<br>
<br>
<br>
I hope you can follow my descriptions.<br>
--<br>
Hugh Piggott<br>
<br>
Scoraig Wind Electric<br>
<st1:country-region w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Scotland</st1:place></st1:country-region><br>
<a href="http://www.scoraigwind.co.uk" target="_blank">http://www.scoraigwind.co.uk</a><br>
<br>
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