[RE-wrenches] The Demise of WEEB

Brian Wiley btw at we-llc.com
Tue Sep 14 12:34:59 PDT 2010


  Mr. Truitt,

You are obviously a talented installer, but please allow me to comment 
on your point number 2.

The clip acts something like a mini-rivet and will still be connected 
when the clamp is loosened. You will have to yank the clip off and 
possibly damage it, which is why they are recommended for one-time use.

A tin-plated lug will last, but it is the attachment to an anodized 
aluminum frame that may not. Many are installed with a stainless steel 
thread forming screw. The original installer might have carelessly 
stripped the threads or screwed it in multiple times so that the 
connection was not that good to start with. We have also seen that in a 
high salt environment the formed thread is a place for corrosion to 
begin and over time, the screw hole can corrode until the lug falls off!

I would recommend the safest practice is to assume that there will not 
be a ground when you remove any module.

Best Regards,
Brian Wiley
Wiley Electronics LLC
845.247.6163
www.we-llc.com


On 9/14/2010 1:31 AM, Andrew Truitt wrote:
>
>
> 2 points:
>
> 1) For the sake of clarity: there are WEEB LUGS 
> <http://www.we-llc.com/Datasheets/204-0404-000003.pdf> and WEEB CLIPS 
> <http://www.we-llc.com/Datasheets/204-0404-000007.pdf>.  WEEB Lugs are 
> comprised of very robust tin-plated copper lugs, stainless steel 
> hardware, and the actual WEEB, which is the stainless steel nippled 
> "washer" that pierces aluminum anodization.  WEEB Clips are simply 
> stainless steal nippled washers that are installed between module and 
> rail that form a bond, theoretically eliminating the need to bond the 
> module to a ground wire, so long as the rails are properly grounded.
>
> 2) My biggest concern with the WEEB Clip is that the moment a 
> top-clamp is loosened the module is no longer grounded!!!  To me that 
> is not a good grounding method.  Mr Wiley is obviously a talented 
> inventor and he makes a strong argument for the quality of the bond 
> that the WEEB Clip provides when the clip is installed properly and 
> all mounting hardware is properly torqued.  What I don't understand is 
> the argument that this is as safe of a product as a properly installed 
> outdoor rated lug for the service tech who has to work on that array.
>
>
> A tin-plated copper lug with a stainless steel set screw will last.  A 
> service tech working on a faulted array that was grounded with WEEB 
> Clips might not.
>
>
>
> Andrew Truitt
> Free agent
> Golden, CO.
>
>
>
> On Mon, Sep 13, 2010 at 10:04 PM, benn kilburn <benn at daystarsolar.ca 
> <mailto:benn at daystarsolar.ca>> wrote:
>
>     Hopefully any crew installing PV, and familiar with this debate
>     (which they should be) can easily distinguish between the GBL-4
>     and the GBL-4DBT.  The weight difference is quite noticeable.  If
>     it feels light for its size, it's aluminum, dont use it!!!  If it
>     has some distinct weight to it, then it's most likely the copper
>     DBT, giv'er!
>
>     So what other non-conductive materials are out there that could
>     help resolve this frame bonding issue?
>       Sunteck's BIPV SolarBlend module uses a polycarbonate frame
>     which requires no bonding.  Do any of you have any experiences
>     with these? How were they to handle, install?  Do they offer any
>     hope or support for non-metallic module frames?
>
>     benn
>     DayStar Renewable Energy Inc.
>     benn at daystarsolar.ca <mailto:benn at daystarsolar.ca>
>     780-906-7807
>     HAVE A SUNNY DAY
>     ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>     From: ray at solarray.com <mailto:ray at solarray.com>
>     Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2010 11:14:36 -0600
>     To: re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
>     <mailto:re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>
>
>     Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] The Demise of WEEB
>
>     I didn't do the original  install, and I couldn't ID the lug
>     because of the corrosion.
>     I believe everyone is correct that this isn't the DBT rated lug,
>     though.
>     Another reason to use the WEEB:  a crew can't accidentally install
>     the wrong (but almost identical, when new) lug.
>     I'm sure the non-DBT lugs got mixed together in a bin at some point.
>
>     R. Walters
>     ray at solarray.com <mailto:ray at solarray.com>
>     Solar Engineer
>
>
>
>
>     On Sep 12, 2010, at 5:41 PM, Jamie Johnson wrote:
>
>          That looks like a tin plated aluminum lug (aluminum
>         corrosion) with a plated steel screw (rusted screw).......
>         Here is an explanation of the differences between both ILSCO
>         GBL 4 lugs from John Wiles Code Corner in Homepower issue 102
>         "The Ilsco GBL-4DBT is a lay-in lug
>         made of solid copper, which is then tin-plated. It has a
>         stainless steel screw to hold the wire. The lug accepts a #14
>         (2 mm2) to #4 (21 mm2) copper conductor. It is listed for
>         direct burial (DB) and outdoor use and can be attached to
>         aluminum structures (the tin plate). The much cheaper Ilsco
>         GBL-4 lug looks identical, but is tin-plated aluminum, has
>         a plated screw, and is not listed for outdoor use."
>         Jamie Johnson
>         NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer #031310-118
>         General Manager
>         SOLAR POWER ELECTRIC
>         EC13001765
>
>             -------- Original Message --------
>             Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] The Demise of WEEB
>             From: "Peter Parrish" <peter.parrish at calsolareng.com
>             <mailto:peter.parrish at calsolareng.com>>
>             Date: Sun, September 12, 2010 6:50 pm
>             To: "'RE-wrenches'" <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
>             <mailto:re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>>
>
>             Are you sure that's a ILSCO GBL-4DBT lug? I am pretty sure
>             the set screw is
>             not SS, which it should be to be the genuine part.
>
>             - Peter
>
>
>             Peter T. Parrish, Ph.D., President
>             California Solar Engineering, Inc.
>             820 Cynthia Ave., Los Angeles, CA 90065
>             CA Lic. 854779, NABCEP Cert. 031806-26
>             peter.parrish at calsolareng.com
>             <mailto:peter.parrish at calsolareng.com>
>             Ph 323-258-8883, Mobile 323-839-6108, Fax 323-258-8885
>
>
>
>             -----Original Message-----
>             From: re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org
>             <mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org>
>             [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] On
>             Behalf Of R Ray
>             Walters
>             Sent: Sunday, September 12, 2010 3:10 PM
>             To: RE-wrenches
>             Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] The Demise of WEEB
>
>             A picture is worth a thousand words, (hopefully this will
>             upload)
>             Here's a traditional Ilsco Lug after less than 5 years
>             near the ocean:
>
>
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