[RE-wrenches] Outback FNDC relay, Flex Net Review

Thu Oct 15 09:16:02 PDT 2009

Sounds like old times ehh? VAPOR WARE

-----Original Message-----
From: re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org
[mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of jay peltz
Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2009 1:52 AM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Outback FNDC relay, Flex Net Review

Hi Tump, 

However the FNDC has both functions.  % start and volt and time start.
So even if the % gets off for some reason, the volt/time should, repeat,
should start it.

I have all but given up on the flexnet.  I find for most customers its too
complicated, and while it gives good information, its hard for folks to
read.
And most importantly for me, the AGS function is not reliable.  I have had
pretty good luck with the normal AGS, but when hooked to the the FLEXNET
just too unreliable.

And heres the kicker. I talked to the techs at outback about a system with a
problem, and they told me there were having problems  with the flexnet and I
should defeat it by setting the start/stop % to 0, great.

jay
peltz power

On Oct 14, 2009, at 4:30 PM, Tump wrote:

I have had issues w/ the FNDC I had to send it back for a reprogram I sent
the mate back at the same time too. MOST important thing I learned is that
the battery bank MUST be at a full SOC prior to connecting the FNDC
otherwise you defiantly will have generator issues.

Still having our low voltage "non start" gen problem.  Reset all parameters
in Mate and we will see what happens
from a customer dated 9/25/09 this customer also has had gen not shutting
off issues too.

-----Original Message-----
From: re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org
[mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of William
Miller
Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2009 5:28 PM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Outback FNDC relay, Flex Net Review

Kent:

The manual is not clear as to how this is done.  Have you considered using a
relay in an FX inverter to activate the generator as is done in a system
without the Flex Net?

Interesting about the SMA claim, but until I hear otherwise, this is just a
claim.

William

At 01:25 PM 10/14/2009, you wrote:

William,

In all of these systems, the Mate's AGS system is being used to control the
FNDC's relay.  The Mate's AGS port has been selected so that it operates the
FNDC's relay rather than using the Aux output on the inverter.  The FNDC is
providing SOC info to the Mate, but isn't directly controlling the relay.

I agree with you about the potential to confuse customers.  And about the
inaccuracy of battery amp-hour meters in general.  But it is interesting
that SMA's main claim about the Sunny Island is that it does the best job
managing batteries.  It does it by keeping track of the battery's SOC.

William Miller wrote: 

Kent:

>From the Flex Net DC manual, page 16:  "OutBack strongly recommends using
the AGS function of the MATE to control a generator."   I assume from your
post, you are using the Auto mode to have the relay control a generator, a
practice that the above quotation recommends against.  This may relate
directly to your problems.

I have no experience with the Flex Net but I took this opportunity to review
the manual more thoroughly than I have previously.  My conclusion is that
the Flex Net is a great tool for the technically inclined but offers a
minimal convenience for the lay person.  The State of Charge function may be
a more realistic method of determining actual state of charge, but if it
operates at all like the E-meter or the Tri-Metric, it is prone to
inaccuracy.  The variables associated with individual battery banks,
particularly as they age, make accurate calibration a moving target.
Overall, the Flex net has the potential to increase customer confusion with
a proliferation of synoptic (overly succinct) menus.

Again, I call on the technicians in the industry to create a user interface
with the lay person in mind.  See previous rant.

I may find I recommend this system for remote locations so I can poll
statistics and interpret for the client, but I will not train a client on
the use of this unless he or she is particularly inclined.

Anyone else have an opinion on the Flex net system?

William Miller

At 12:13 PM 10/14/2009, you wrote:

Has anyone besides me had problems using the relay in the Outback FNDC?
I've had three different customers report that their generators failed to
turn off.

-- 
Kent Osterberg
Blue Mountain Solar, Inc.
www.bluemountainsolar.com <http://www.bluemountainsolar.com/> 

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