[RE-wrenches] Outback FNDC relay, Flex Net Review

Wed Oct 14 22:51:56 PDT 2009

Hi Tump,

However the FNDC has both functions.  % start and volt and time start.
So even if the % gets off for some reason, the volt/time should,  
repeat, should start it.

I have all but given up on the flexnet.  I find for most customers its  
too complicated, and while it gives good information, its hard for  
folks to read.
And most importantly for me, the AGS function is not reliable.  I have  
had pretty good luck with the normal AGS, but when hooked to the the  
FLEXNET just too unreliable.

And heres the kicker. I talked to the techs at outback about a system  
with a problem, and they told me there were having problems  with the  
flexnet and I should defeat it by setting the start/stop % to 0, great.

jay
peltz power

On Oct 14, 2009, at 4:30 PM, Tump wrote:

>
> I have had issues w/ the FNDC I had to send it back for a reprogram  
> I sent the mate back at the same time too. MOST important thing I  
> learned is that the battery bank MUST be at a full SOC prior to  
> connecting the FNDC otherwise you defiantly will have generator  
> issues.
>
> Still having our low voltage “non start” gen problem.  Reset all  
> parameters in Mate and we will see what happens
> from a customer dated 9/25/09 this customer also has had gen not  
> shutting off issues too.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org 
> ] On Behalf Of William Miller
> Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2009 5:28 PM
> To: RE-wrenches
> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Outback FNDC relay, Flex Net Review
>
> Kent:
>
> The manual is not clear as to how this is done.  Have you considered  
> using a relay in an FX inverter to activate the generator as is done  
> in a system without the Flex Net?
>
> Interesting about the SMA claim, but until I hear otherwise, this is  
> just a claim.
>
> William
>
>
>
> At 01:25 PM 10/14/2009, you wrote:
>> William,
>>
>> In all of these systems, the Mate's AGS system is being used to  
>> control the FNDC's relay.  The Mate's AGS port has been selected so  
>> that it operates the FNDC's relay rather than using the Aux output  
>> on the inverter.  The FNDC is providing SOC info to the Mate, but  
>> isn't directly controlling the relay.
>>
>> I agree with you about the potential to confuse customers.  And  
>> about the inaccuracy of battery amp-hour meters in general.  But it  
>> is interesting that SMA's main claim about the Sunny Island is that  
>> it does the best job managing batteries.  It does it by keeping  
>> track of the battery's SOC.
>>
>>
>> William Miller wrote:
>>> Kent:
>>>
>>> >From the Flex Net DC manual, page 16:  "OutBack strongly  
>>> recommends using the AGS function of the MATE to control a  
>>> generator."   I assume from your post, you are using the Auto mode  
>>> to have the relay control a generator, a practice that the above  
>>> quotation recommends against.  This may relate directly to your  
>>> problems.
>>>
>>> I have no experience with the Flex Net but I took this opportunity  
>>> to review the manual more thoroughly than I have previously.  My  
>>> conclusion is that the Flex Net is a great tool for the  
>>> technically inclined but offers a minimal convenience for the lay  
>>> person.  The State of Charge function may be a more realistic  
>>> method of determining actual state of charge, but if it operates  
>>> at all like the E-meter or the Tri-Metric, it is prone to  
>>> inaccuracy.  The variables associated with individual battery  
>>> banks, particularly as they age, make accurate calibration a  
>>> moving target.  Overall, the Flex net has the potential to  
>>> increase customer confusion with a proliferation of synoptic  
>>> (overly succinct) menus.
>>>
>>> Again, I call on the technicians in the industry to create a user  
>>> interface with the lay person in mind.  See previous rant.
>>>
>>> I may find I recommend this system for remote locations so I can  
>>> poll statistics and interpret for the client, but I will not train  
>>> a client on the use of this unless he or she is particularly  
>>> inclined.
>>>
>>> Anyone else have an opinion on the Flex net system?
>>>
>>> William Miller
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> At 12:13 PM 10/14/2009, you wrote:
>>>> Has anyone besides me had problems using the relay in the Outback  
>>>> FNDC?  I've had three different customers report that their  
>>>> generators failed to turn off.
>>>>
>>>> -- 
>>>> Kent Osterberg
>>>> Blue Mountain Solar, Inc.
>>>> www.bluemountainsolar.com
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>
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