[RE-wrenches] XW6048 parts problem

Mon Sep 21 13:14:18 PDT 2009

To add to Drake’s response, The “V” series OutBacks have an internal fan that is not powered by the AUX output, leaving that output available for running a secondary relay. Only the “T” Series OutBacks (sealed or “Turbo” version) have the external fan in the top cover that requires the use of the 12VDC AUX output. Sure would be nice if OutBack could power that fan some other way…

The Simple Switch was a product made by the long-gone Photron, but Solar Converters makes a unit that is almost identical and is called the Voltage Controlled Switch (VCS). They are available in either an Active-High or Active-Low configuration, and are SPDT switches rated at 30A at 12/24VDC, 15A at 36VDC, and 3A at 48VDC. Voltage range is 10V-63V. Fully adjustable on and off voltage setpoints. They consume 17mA when “off” and between 32 and 75mA when “on” (depending on the voltage)

Brian Teitelbaum
AEE Solar

On Sunday, September 20, 2009 5:09pm, "Drake Chamberlin" <drake.chamberlin at redwoodalliance.org> said:

Hi Peter,

Do you need the extra fan?  The VFX has an internal fan.  Are there a lot of heavy loads that push the limits of the Outback?  If not, take out the fan or swap it for a cover with no fan.  Many VFX inverters didn't come with cover fans.  I don't know if they are standard now, or not.

Or, have the fan go on whenever the direct grid tie inverter is being called on to charge batteries instead of feed the grid.  If loads are not real heavy, battery charging, by back feeding the AC Out, may be the time when the fan is needed the most.

Before inverters started controlling generators, we used a device called the Simple Switch, which was a voltage controlled contact.  (We'd use it with a GenWiz).  I'm not sure what is out there these days. You could use the Atkinson GSCM, generator start module, which senses the voltage. If you need this solution, I'd call AEE.

Thanks for the heads up on the Xantrex.  I just heard another horror story about the Xantrex 6024 system.  According to the installer, the owner shut off an AC switch and the array cooked a bank of Surrette 25CS 25 PS batteries.  I don't know the new Xantrex line and don't understand how this could happen.  Is this really possible?

-Drake

At 06:43 PM 9/20/2009, you wrote:

Hi Drake (and everyone else interested in this thread),

Armed with the information from my esteemed colleagues, we went ahead and purchased a SunWise “Solar Ready-Grid Tie Battery System”, a SRB3.6 to be exact. The heart of the system is a GVFX3648. I ordered it without the Charge controller and purchased a SB3000 and 3150 Wdc of PV to go with it.

I also purchased a Grainger 2P2T relay with a 12 V coil in a NC configuration (to disconnect the SB when the batteries are fully charged in off-grid mode) and an Outback PSX-240 to transform the 240 Vac to 120 Vac (in order to interface with the GVFX3648.

When we looked into hooking the relay up to the AUX-OUT of the GVFX3648, we discovered that it was already dedicated to the fan…

So it looks like we will need to put something together to sense the battery voltage and energize the relay coil, when we exceed the threshold. Any recommendations for a add-on HVD? And exactly what threshold voltage should we use for 8ea 6V 305 Ah (C/24) AGM batteries?

And for Drake: I gravitated away from Xantrex because of a very unsatisfactory experience with a XW6048. The system failed to work properly and Xantrex “hemmed and hawed” for over six months. Bottom line: we made six service calls, two firmware upgrades and probably two dozen calls to largely clueless group tech supporters. Through it all, I lost the customer’s confidence and he chose another integrator to do a follow on commercial project. The last part of course was the worst part of the experience.

- Peter

Hi Peter,

The Outback inverter will not regulate battery charge while AC coupled.  The SMA is the only system designed to give a regulated charge to batteries in the AC coupled mode. The Outback auxiliary relay can be used to drive a relay that will disconnect the input to the inverter, to regulate battery charge when grid is down.  I like an "Ice Cube Rely" (such as Idec) to control a contactor.  The coil of the Idec uses very little power.

Why did you gravitate toward Xantrex from Outback?

Drake

At 09:25 PM 8/4/2009, you wrote:

I would like to start a thread on AC-coupled grid tied battery backup systems. We do a fair number of GTBBSs (four to five a year) and I have gravitated from the Outback solution to the Xantrex XW solution. I am not happy with the XW product and especially not happy with Xantrexs post sales technical support. I know I have more to learn about these puppies in general, so I am genuinely disappointed with the uneven TS from Xantrex.

I also had this nagging feeling that the heart of a GTBBS should be the tried and true high voltage inverter. Enter the SunPower positive ground requirement, and now an AC coupled system seems the best solution.

>From the white paper that Outback sent me, there was no mention of a heavy duty relay. Doesnt the Outback inverter regulate the battery charge control?

Has anyone tried to order a SunWize Solar Ready Battery Assemblywithout the charge controller (e.g. P/N SRB3.6). It would seem that this is a nice package for small energy needs (13 to 26 kWh of battery backup).

- Peter
[cid:7.1.0.9.0.20090920194015.01f1e3b8 at redwoodalliance.org.1]Peter T. Parrish, Ph.D., President
California Solar Engineering, Inc.
820 Cynthia Ave., Los Angeles, CA 90065
CA Lic. 854779, NABCEP Cert. 031806-26
peter.parrish at calsolareng.com<mailto:peter.parrish at calsolareng.com>
Ph 323-258-8883, Mobile 323-839-6108, Fax 323-258-8885

________________________________
From: re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org [ mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of William Miller
Sent: Tuesday, August 04, 2009 5:55 PM
To: jryago at netscape.com; RE-wrenches
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] XW6048 parts problem

Jeff:

I have a spare.  They are not kept in the socket but are loose in a bag.  Send me your mailing address off list.  I leave tomorrow for a week, so I hope I see your address before I go.

William

At 04:59 PM 8/4/2009, you wrote:

Just completed a large residential grid/gen/solar/battery system using a XW6048 inverter.

We are using a SunnyBoy inverter at the array and doing an AC coupled backfeed.  To do this we have installed a heavy duty relay in the output of the SunnyBoy, and are using the aux. relay contacts on the XW unit to close this relay when battery voltage is at high limit (during no load power outage to prevent over-charging)

Not sure if we lost it during installation, if it shook loose in shipment and fell out, or was missing to begin with, but to connect to the aux. contacts in th XW requires a very small green flat 5-pin connector which is missing.

I contacted multiple people at Xantrex and their service center, waded through their web site, and finally talked to a service tech.  He advised that "he was looking for an extra one of these connectors 6 months ago and still has not received it, as these compoments are made and assembled in China and they do not stock anything that is considered an assembly part used in China to build their units."

First, I did not realize these inverters were being assembled in China, and second, who ever heard of not stocking a replacement part just because its made in China.  If that were true, 95% of everything sold today in US would not be able to order replacement parts.

Anybody out their know if there is a Radio Shack type supplier where I can order a bag of these and get on with the system startup and my life?

Thanks,

Jeff Yago

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Drake Chamberlin
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Drake Chamberlin
Athens Electric
OH License 44810
CO License 3773
NABCEP TM  Certified PV Installer
Office - 740-448-7328
Mobile - 740-856-9648
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