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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>To add to Drake’s response, The “V” series OutBacks have an
internal fan that is not powered by the AUX output, leaving that output
available for running a secondary relay. Only the “T” Series OutBacks (sealed
or “Turbo” version) have the external fan in the top cover that requires the
use of the 12VDC AUX output. Sure would be nice if OutBack could power that fan
some other way…<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>The Simple Switch was a product made by the long-gone Photron,
but Solar Converters makes a unit that is almost identical and is called the
Voltage Controlled Switch (VCS). They are available in either an Active-High or
Active-Low configuration, and are SPDT switches rated at 30A at 12/24VDC, 15A
at 36VDC, and 3A at 48VDC. Voltage range is 10V-63V. Fully adjustable on and
off voltage setpoints. They consume 17mA when “off” and between 32 and 75mA
when “on” (depending on the voltage)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Brian Teitelbaum<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>AEE Solar<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><br>
<br>
<br>
On Sunday, September 20, 2009 5:09pm, "Drake Chamberlin"
<drake.chamberlin@redwoodalliance.org> said:<br>
<br>
Hi Peter, <br>
<br>
Do you need the extra fan? The VFX has an internal fan. Are there a
lot of heavy loads that push the limits of the Outback? If not, take out
the fan or swap it for a cover with no fan. Many VFX inverters didn't
come with cover fans. I don't know if they are standard now, or not.<br>
<br>
Or, have the fan go on whenever the direct grid tie inverter is being called on
to charge batteries instead of feed the grid. If loads are not real
heavy, battery charging, by back feeding the AC Out, may be the time when the
fan is needed the most. <br>
<br>
Before inverters started controlling generators, we used a device called the
Simple Switch, which was a voltage controlled contact. (We'd use it with
a GenWiz). I'm not sure what is out there these days. You could use the
Atkinson GSCM, generator start module, which senses the voltage. If you need
this solution, I'd call AEE. <br>
<br>
Thanks for the heads up on the Xantrex. I just heard another horror story
about the Xantrex 6024 system. According to the installer, the owner shut
off an AC switch and the array cooked a bank of Surrette 25CS 25 PS
batteries. I don't know the new Xantrex line and don't understand how this
could happen. Is this really possible? <br>
<br>
-Drake <br>
<br>
At 06:43 PM 9/20/2009, you wrote:<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'>Hi Drake (and everyone else interested in this thread),<br>
<br>
Armed with the information from my esteemed colleagues, we went ahead and
purchased a SunWise “Solar Ready-Grid Tie Battery System”, a SRB3.6 to be
exact. The heart of the system is a GVFX3648. I ordered it without the Charge
controller and purchased a SB3000 and 3150 Wdc of PV to go with it. <br>
<br>
I also purchased a Grainger 2P2T relay with a 12 V coil in a NC configuration
(to disconnect the SB when the batteries are fully charged in off-grid mode)
and an Outback PSX-240 to transform the 240 Vac to 120 Vac (in order to
interface with the GVFX3648.<br>
<br>
When we looked into hooking the relay up to the AUX-OUT of the GVFX3648, we discovered
that it was already dedicated to the fan…<br>
<br>
So it looks like we will need to put something together to sense the battery
voltage and energize the relay coil, when we exceed the threshold. Any
recommendations for a add-on HVD? And exactly what threshold voltage should we
use for 8ea 6V 305 Ah (C/24) AGM batteries?<br>
<br>
And for Drake: I gravitated away from Xantrex because of a very unsatisfactory
experience with a XW6048. The system failed to work properly and Xantrex
“hemmed and hawed” for over six months. Bottom line: we made six service calls,
two firmware upgrades and probably two dozen calls to largely clueless group
tech supporters. Through it all, I lost the customer’s confidence and he chose
another integrator to do a follow on commercial project. The last part of
course was the worst part of the experience.<br>
<br>
- Peter <br>
</span><span style='font-size:13.5pt'> <br>
Hi Peter,<br>
<br>
The Outback inverter will not regulate battery charge while AC coupled.
The SMA is the only system designed to give a regulated charge to batteries in
the AC coupled mode. The Outback auxiliary relay can be used to drive a relay
that will disconnect the input to the inverter, to regulate battery charge when
grid is down. I like an "Ice Cube Rely" (such as Idec) to
control a contactor. The coil of the Idec uses very little power. <br>
<br>
Why did you gravitate toward Xantrex from Outback?<br>
<br>
Drake <br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
At 09:25 PM 8/4/2009, you wrote:<br>
<br>
</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>I would like to start a thread
on AC-coupled grid tied battery backup systems. We do a fair number of GTBBSs
(four to five a year) and I have gravitated from the Outback solution to the
Xantrex XW solution. I am not happy with the XW product and especially not
happy with Xantrexs post sales technical support. I know I have more to learn
about these puppies in general, so I am genuinely disappointed with the uneven
TS from Xantrex.<br>
<br>
</span><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'>I also had this nagging feeling that the heart of a GTBBS should be
the tried and true high voltage inverter. Enter the SunPower positive ground
requirement, and now an AC coupled system seems the best solution.<br>
<br>
>From the white paper that Outback sent me, there was no mention of a heavy
duty relay. Doesnt the Outback inverter regulate the battery charge control?<br>
<br>
Has anyone tried to order a SunWize Solar Ready Battery Assemblywithout the
charge controller (e.g. P/N SRB3.6). It would seem that this is a nice package
for small energy needs (13 to 26 kWh of battery backup). <br>
</span><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><br>
<span style='color:navy'>- Peter <br>
</span><img width=67 height=80 id="_x0000_i1025"
src="cid:7.1.0.9.0.20090920194015.01f1e3b8@redwoodalliance.org.1" alt="[]"></span><span
style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'>Peter T.
Parrish, Ph.D., President<br>
California Solar Engineering, Inc.<br>
820 Cynthia Ave., Los Angeles, CA 90065<br>
CA Lic. 854779, NABCEP Cert. 031806-26<br>
<a href="mailto:peter.parrish@calsolareng.com">peter.parrish@calsolareng.com</a>
<br>
Ph 323-258-8883, Mobile 323-839-6108, Fax
323-258-8885
<br>
</span><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><br>
<span style='color:navy'> </span><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>
<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center>
</span></div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>
re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org [ <a
href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org">mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>William Miller<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, August 04, 2009 5:55 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> jryago@netscape.com; RE-wrenches<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [RE-wrenches] XW6048 parts problem<br>
</span><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> <br>
Jeff:<br>
<br>
I have a spare. They are not kept in the socket but are loose in a
bag. Send me your mailing address off list. I leave tomorrow for a
week, so I hope I see your address before I go.<br>
<br>
William<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
At 04:59 PM 8/4/2009, you wrote:<br>
<br>
Just completed a large residential grid/gen/solar/battery system using a XW6048
inverter.<br>
<br>
We are using a SunnyBoy inverter at the array and doing an AC coupled
backfeed. To do this we have installed a heavy duty relay in the output
of the SunnyBoy, and are using the aux. relay contacts on the XW unit to close
this relay when battery voltage is at high limit (during no load power outage
to prevent over-charging)<br>
<br>
Not sure if we lost it during installation, if it shook loose in shipment and
fell out, or was missing to begin with, but to connect to the aux. contacts in
th XW requires a very small green flat 5-pin connector which is missing.<br>
<br>
I contacted multiple people at Xantrex and their service center, waded through
their web site, and finally talked to a service tech. He advised that
"he was looking for an extra one of these connectors 6 months ago and
still has not received it, as these compoments are made and assembled in China
and they do not stock anything that is considered an assembly part used in
China to build their units."<br>
<br>
First, I did not realize these inverters were being assembled in China, and
second, who ever heard of not stocking a replacement part just because its made
in China. If that were true, 95% of everything sold today in US would not
be able to order replacement parts.<br>
<br>
Anybody out their know if there is a Radio Shack type supplier where I can
order a bag of these and get on with the system startup and my life?<br>
<br>
Thanks,<br>
<br>
Jeff Yago<br>
<br>
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<u>Please note new e-mail address and domain:<br>
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</span><span style='font-size:13.5pt;color:blue'>Drake Chamberlin<br>
Athens Electric<br>
OH License 44810<br>
CO License 3773<br>
NABCEP </span><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:blue'>TM </span><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:blue'>Certified PV Installer <br>
Office - 740-448-7328<br>
Mobile - 740-856-9648 <br>
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<p><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:blue'>Drake
Chamberlin<br>
Athens Electric<br>
OH License 44810<br>
CO License 3773<br>
NABCEP </span><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:blue'>TM </span><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:blue'>Certified PV Installer <br>
Office - 740-448-7328<br>
Mobile - 740-856-9648 </span><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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