[RE-wrenches] Bonding Rails
Dave Click
daveclick at fsec.ucf.edu
Wed Nov 18 04:35:04 PST 2009
Kirpal, it looks like Unirac needs to make their requirement consistent-
I was using
http://www.unirac.com/pdf/ii227.pdf (dated Sep '09)
as my source which differs from your source (dated Feb '09)
I like your 225_5 layout better, though. The more grounding the merrier.
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Bonding Rails
From: Kirpal Khalsa <solarworks at gmail.com>
To: RE-wrenches <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>
Date: 2009/11/17 19:29
> Hey Guys....Unirac recently changed their requirement to 2 clips between
> each module.......one on the upper rail and one on the lower
> rail......therefore by my count you need 2N-2 clips for N modules, you
> don't need any clips at the ends of the row of modules........ the
> link to their diagram and instructions is:
> http://www.unirac.com/pdf/ii225_5.pdf
>
>
> I think the overall intention is that it is better to not skimp on
> grounding.....for all the inner modules in a row they are bonded to the
> rails at 4 points, each of the rails has a ground lug. Should any
> module be removed for any reason the remainder of the modules are still
> solidly grounded......
>
> My understanding is that Uniracs ground lugs and clips are licensed from
> Wiley so I would guess that the Wiley direct ground lugs and clips have
> the same requirements......
>
> My take is that this grounding system is soooooo much more convenient
> and fast than some of the ground lug to module systems we used to
> use.......(and still use in top of pole mounts)...
> Cheers,
>
> --
> Sunny Regards,
> Kirpal Khalsa
> NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer
> Renewable Energy Systems
> www.oregonsolarworks.com <http://www.oregonsolarworks.com>
> 541-218-0201 m
> 541-592-3958 o
>
> On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 1:47 PM, Peter Parrish
> <peter.parrish at calsolareng.com <mailto:peter.parrish at calsolareng.com>>
> wrote:
>
> That still works to approximately one clip per rail (actually N-1
> clips for
> N modules). - Peter
>
>
> Peter T. Parrish, Ph.D., President
> California Solar Engineering, Inc.
> 820 Cynthia Ave., Los Angeles, CA 90065
> CA Lic. 854779, NABCEP Cert. 031806-26
> peter.parrish at calsolareng.com <mailto:peter.parrish at calsolareng.com>
> Ph 323-258-8883, Mobile 323-839-6108, Fax 323-258-8885
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org
> <mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org>
> [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org
> <mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org>] On Behalf Of
> Dave Click
> Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 2009 1:09 PM
> To: RE-wrenches
> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Bonding Rails
>
> Yes, that's correct. In my answer I was just rephrasing it to say you'd
> need twice as many WEEBs as you think. As I understand it, the intent of
> this layout is to give the installer two chances to bond each module
> properly to the rail.
>
> Unirac has a similar requirement for its UGC-1s on SolarMount, but in
> their schematic they don't require you to bond to both rails. So if you
> have four modules, you need UGC-1s between A&B, B&C, C&D but you can
> have them all on a single rail. I think it's better to alternate between
> rails anyway: A&B (top rail), B&C (bottom rail), etc.
>
> DKC
>
> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Bonding Rails
> From: Peter Parrish <peter.parrish at calsolareng.com
> <mailto:peter.parrish at calsolareng.com>>
> To: 'RE-wrenches' <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
> <mailto:re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>>
> Date: 2009/11/17 15:55
>
> > On page 8 it would appear that we need TWO WEEB clips bonding
> modules A
> and
> > B to rails #1 and #2 and another TWO WEEB clips bonding modules C
> and D to
> > rails #1 and #2, etc. - Peter
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org
> <mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org>
> > [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org
> <mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org>] On Behalf Of
> Dave Click
> > Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 2009 12:14 PM
> > To: RE-wrenches
> > Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Bonding Rails
> >
> > Peter,
> >
> > (1) it appears that per the WEEB installation manual:
> > http://www.we-llc.com/Datasheets/104-0404-000008-008.pdf
> > (page 8) you need to have one WEEB per module rather than one for
> every
> > other module as you suggest.
> >
> > (2) 690.43 Equipment Grounding.
> > Exposed non-current-carrying metal parts of module frames, equipment,
> > and conductor enclosures shall be grounded in accordance with
> 250.134 or
> > 250.136(A) regardless of voltage.
> >
> > I guess the latter answer depends on whether your AHJ considers the
> > rails "exposed"-- I would, so in this situation I'd have lugs on each
> > module and each rail.
> >
> > DKC
> >
> > -------- Original Message --------
> > Subject: [RE-wrenches] Bonding Rails
> > From: Peter Parrish <peter.parrish at calsolareng.com
> <mailto:peter.parrish at calsolareng.com>>
> > To: 'RE-wrenches' <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
> <mailto:re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>>
> > Date: 2009/11/17 14:56
> >
> >> We have been using WEEB clips on all of our installations for over a
> >> year now. We include the WEEB data/installation sheets in our permit
> >> package and patiently point out the clips to inspectors who
> haven't seen
> >> the WEEB system yet.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Two questions:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> (1) For ProSolar rails, can we use one WEEB clip to bond two
> >> adjacent modules (say, modules A and B) on the upper rail (say,
> rail #1)
> >> and then use a second WEEB clip to bond the next two adjacent
> modules
> >> (say, modules C and D) on the lower rail (say, rail #2) and then
> use a
> >> listed lay-in lug (with in our case a WEEB clip) to bond to
> either rail
> >> #1 or #2 to continue the grounding?
> >>
> >> (2) If we DON"T use WEEB clips and use the conventional bonding
> >> methodology per module manufacturer's instructions (proper
> location on
> >> the module, and listed screws, washers and nuts), do we have to ALSO
> >> bond the rails? We have an inspector in Pasadena, CA that is
> requiring
> >> this, but this is the first time we have been required to do so.
> Perhaps
> >> in the past year in ignorant bliss we have missed an important
> >> development? Or have we been dodging bullets for seven years and not
> >> even knowing it?
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> - Peter
> >>
> >> Peter T. Parrish, Ph.D., President
> >> California Solar Engineering, Inc.
> >> 820 Cynthia Ave., Los Angeles, CA 90065
> >> CA Lic. 854779, NABCEP Cert. 031806-26
> >> peter.parrish at calsolareng.com
> <mailto:peter.parrish at calsolareng.com>
> <mailto:peter.parrish at calsolareng.com
> <mailto:peter.parrish at calsolareng.com>>
> >> Ph 323-258-8883, Mobile 323-839-6108, Fax 323-258-8885
> >>
> >
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
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