Kyocera [RE-wrenches]

Fri Jun 20 10:46:01 PDT 2008

Bill,

Thanks for your insight. I still believe it to be a valid guideline. Since temperature is the MOST important issue where I am (it is 115 degrees today, low air mass, UV=11), I'll review the issue another way. I have installed Sanyo, Kaneka, Uni-solar and Kyocera arrays among others. The Kyocera performance is much less than the aforementioned modules based on the predicted output. The Uni-Solar consistently perform the best.

Any way you look at this, there will be high performance and low performance modules. I recommend performance as a primary consideration, company integrity (the brand),  and then cost.

I give Kyocera some credit for taking care of the KC-120 (2000~2002) issue. This year they started shipping us the refurbished modules. The old cells with new backing, frame and J-box. They are re-rated to the warranted power level and have a new data label so I assume they were flashed . Prior to this they were shipping us brand new 125's and then 130's.  If you have modules that are in the failure date period, even if they have not yet failed, they will replace them. They don't want to pay any labor, though. (thumbs down)

Thanks to all,
Larry Crutcher
General Manager
Starlight Solar

Retail Store & Shipping: 2998 Shari Ave. Yuma, AZ 85365
Phone (928) 941-1660      Fax (928) 342-9103

Mailing Address:11279 S. Glenwood Ave, Box 11114, Yuma, AZ 85367
Renewable Energy Products for Home, Business and Recreational Vehicles
powered by STARLIGHT

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Bill Brooks 
  To: RE-wrenches at topica.com 
  Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2008 11:49 PM
  Subject: RE: Kyocera [RE-wrenches]

  Larry,

  I think you probably are misunderstanding what the CEC does when they "rate"
  modules. There is no 3rd party testing required to verify the results on the
  CEC website other than a minor amount done by the listing agency. Soon,
  modules will have more substantial 3rd party data by the beginning of next
  year.

  All you get on the CEC website is a calculation based on the manufacturer's
  stated power temperature coefficients. The lower the temperature coefficient
  the "better" the rating will be on your spreadsheet. You could rank
  temperature coefficients and get the exact same ordering of modules. This
  does not address at all how close a product is to their nameplate rating.
  Some modules can be delivered 10% below nameplate rating but have very good
  temperature coefficients. Your list cannot detect this problem.

  Japanese modules tend to be closer to their ratings because Sanyo got their
  hands severely slapped by the Japanese government for lying on their
  performance. This caused all Japanese manufacturers to save face by becoming
  more conservative on their ratings. Kyocera, in order to save face, never
  admitted that they had a major defect with their KC-120 product, and they
  should be called on the carpet for their approach. Saving face is common in
  Asia, but in the U.S. we call it dishonesty.

  Bill.

  -----Original Message-----
  From: Larry Crutcher, Starlight Solar [mailto:larry at starlightsolar.com] 
  Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2008 1:13 PM
  To: RE-wrenches at topica.com
  Subject: Re: Kyocera [RE-wrenches]

  Drake,

  I sell tons of Kyocera modules to RV customers because they come to my store
  and ask for it by name. However, I never recommend them. While I concur with
  most of the other comments, it is interesting that no one has mentioned the
  overall poor performance of Kyocera. 

  The CEC rates them way down in the bottom end for performance. The KC-120 is
  below 700 out of about 940 modules tested. Others rate a little higher. The
  top performers are First Solar, Uni-Solar, Sunpower, and Sanyo. If customers
  will listen to me, I always recommend the best performance modules as it
  makes a HUGE payback difference over the next three decades of operation.

  Here in Arizona, the $3 per watt rebate is based on nameplate rating. So
  there is no incentive to build high performance systems. The cheaper panel
  you by, the lower the customers initial cost. The rebate should be based on
  performance. If we push high performance instead of price, won't many
  manufacturers step up to the plate with better modules? Wouldn't that be
  good?  
  Larry Crutcher
  General Manager
  Starlight Solar

  Retail Store & Shipping: 2998 Shari Ave. Yuma, AZ 85365
  Phone (928) 941-1660      Fax (928) 342-9103

  Mailing Address:11279 S. Glenwood Ave, Box 11114, Yuma, AZ 85367
  Renewable Energy Products for Home, Business and Recreational Vehicles
  powered by STARLIGHT

    ----- Original Message ----- 
    From: Drake Chamberlin 
    To: RE-wrenches at topica.com 
    Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2008 9:36 AM
    Subject: Kyocera [RE-wrenches]

    I've been hearing conflicting opinions as to the quality of Kyocera 
    modules.  Some years back, on the list, I recall that it was stated 
    that there have been voltage consistency problems, and other issues.

    One long-time solar salesman recently claimed that Kyocera is the 
    best product on the market.  Does anyone have any experience that 
    would give an indication of the quality of Kyocera?

    Thanks,

    Drake 

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