Tri-Metric [RE-wrenches]

Sat Dec 1 18:16:45 PST 2007

Sorry for my slowness in responding; this got lost in my inbox...Responses
below.
Allan at PosE

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Nick Lucchese" <nickl at sierrasolar.com>
Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2007 4:30 PM
>
> Thanks Allan and Bob-O,
>
>   Allan- I'm not necessarily saying that I have problems with them but
> it tends to be one of the most technical components from a customers
> standpoint. I know it shouldn't be, it's just three buttons right?

Actually, it's just two.

> Even after setting it up for them and after providing a tutorial I
> see a glazed over look in their eye with a lot of unconvincing
> nodding. I also always like to encourage my customers to read manuals
> and although well written, the Trimetric manual makes one's head
> spin.

I discourage customers from reading the manual, for the reasons you've
given. Rather, the TM manual goes in the owner's manual we prepare, but I
encourage folks to use the four-page color product brochure, which really
contains on page two all of the info that is needed to use the monitor.

This one is quite often too difficult to overcome and I
> acknowledge that even the new Flexnet equipment may face this same
> issue. If a system owner is confused by this newly introduced
> terminology then they will most likely resort to observing voltage
> and may not apply themselves to learning it until their first
> batteries fail. I know that the new Flexnet will not be the answer to
> everything but I have a hunch that the layout will be more
> understandable to the common person as well as provide me with more
> data when I visit the site.

I suggest using the per cent and amps figures the most actively. I show how
the amps changes when a light is turned on; that shows how anything can be
evaluated. "See? that's 0.7A lower when it's turned off. 0.7 times 25 volts
is 18 watts, which is what that compact fluorescent is rated."

We also provide a form for recording TM readings, and explain that filling
it out for at least a while will make the relationships between the values
more familiar, and give us a tool for troubleshooting if ever needed.

>   If the batteries are not fully charged often then the "Battery %
> full" values will become more and more out of sync over time. That is
> what I was referring to when I say that it needs to be re-calibrated.
> There is never a substitute for fully charging one's batteries but
> that does not mean that folks will charge their batteries
> appropriately. So I guess I'm saying that there is a class of people
> out there that it's almost a disservice to sell them a $185
> voltmeter. That all said I appreciate what you've shared and have
> some additional questions.
>
>   What would the conservative amp hour # be that you typically set? As
> low as 80% of stated manu's specs or?

Somewhere between around 70% and 90%, depending on our sense of the
customer. We generally let the most savvy family member in on the little
secret.

>   If setting the "Charged Voltage' criteria low enough to compensate
> for warm "summer" batteries what happens in the winter when the
> batteries are cold? Wouldn't the customer always be led to believe
> the batteries are full when in fact they still have a few 10ths of
> the way to go? Perhaps educate the customer enough to change these
> set points twice a year?

Nope, won't happen. With a 29.6 bulk setpoint, we'll set TM voltage
threshold to 28.7-28.8, depending on battery environment. Remember that it's
the amps threshold that also has to reach its respective threshold,
typically around 2% of c/20 capacity.

Don't try to be too precise. An approximation that is used is way more
useful than an accurate reading that doesn't reset.

> Thanks again to the two of you for taking the time to respond, Nick A
Lucchese
>
>
>
>
>
> >Nick,
> >We have long had a basic policy that every battery-based system gets a
> >Tri-Metric, and have never regretted it. We don't experience the problems
> >you describe, so maybe it's your setup. Here are a few secrets I have
> >learned over the years:
> >1. We always set the display (in setup mode from the blank screen) to
P01,
> >not P00: 1% increments, automatic reset. This eliminates the useless
"FUL",
> >allows closer incremental readings, and eliminates the need for the
customer
> >to reset anything except the EQ counter. (The 1% option is a main reason
we
> >have never used the Xantrex/Trace TM500 meter, which lacked that option.)
> >2. We set the amp-hours somewhat lower than actual C/20 or C/100 rates,
to
> >build in a bit of reserve.
> >3. We always go over use of all of the functions upon system startup and
> >orientation, emphasizing percent and amps as key functions. We downplay
> >voltage as only a "corroborating value" that will reveal patterns as it
> >becomes familiar.
> >4. Years ago we prepared a Tri-Metric log form (thanks to Dan Rice),
several
> >copies of which go in the system manual. We tell the customer to fill it
out
> >several times a day/night for the first couple of weeks, then daily for a
> >couple of months, until patterns begin to emerge and the system
indicators
> >become familiar.
> >5. The Tri-Met goes in the kitchen or hall, not the power room; it's got
to
> >be a part of daily consciousness to be used.
> >6. 97H works well with standard flooded batteries, 94H won't always
reset.
> >7. Set the charged voltage setting far enough below
temperature-compensated
> >controller bulk voltage to allow reset when the batteries are warm in
late
> >summer. We use about 0.8V with a 24V system. Set amps to around 2% of
> >battery capacity; more (or even defeated) with an undersized array.
> >
> >The real beauty of all this is that we can often avoid callbacks and
> >billable service calls by phone troubleshooting. And the CAH is our ace
in
> >the hole when batteries fail before the customer thought they should
have.
> >
> >Hope this helps.
> >Allan at Positive Energy
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Nick Lucchese" <nickl at sierrasolar.com>
> >To: <RE-wrenches at topica.com>
> >Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2007 3:02 PM
> >Subject: Flexnet DC [RE-wrenches]
> >
> >
> >>
> >>  Hello Wrenches,
> >  I'm really excited
> >>  for this product as I'm constantly challenged with customers that are
> >>  unwilling/unable to provide adequate feedback on their system. The
> >>  Trimetric is great if the customer is technically able but 90% of the
> >>  time they are left on the "Volts" screen and never re-calibrated.
> >>  Thanks again for your time,
> >>
> >>  Nick A Lucchese

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