Missing Junction boxes on modules [RE-wrenches]

Jim Easton jeaston at ucsd.edu
Mon Aug 20 18:52:48 PDT 2007 

<x-flowed>

Maybe, while we are at it, we can get frame grounding terminals INSIDE the 
J-Boxes so we do not have these fights with the AHJs over proper frame 
bonding.

Jim Easton, PE
 (E 11974)
4364 Bonita Road, No. 166
Bonita, CA 91902-1421
Tel: 858-527-0240
Fax: 619-470-8616
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Ray Walters" <walters at taosnet.com>
To: <RE-wrenches at topica.com>
Sent: Monday, August 20, 2007 7:28 AM
Subject: Re: Missing Junction boxes on modules[RE-wrenches]


>
>
> I'll just throw my vote for J boxes in too. We've been going through  the 
> Solar world thing ourselves, I hope they are listening to the  list, 
> because having tens of thousands of dollars of modules sitting  in my 
> limited storage area that we couldn't install this summer  because we 
> didn't have connectors.... they owe us big time. I have to  say too that 
> my current installations look like crap compared to what  I did last year 
> with J-boxed modules. We do mostly pole mounts, and  we actually spent 
> more time than before trying to secure the cables.  The double insulated 
> cables don't work with the clips we got from AEE  either. Too thick....
>
> Ray
>
>
> On Aug 18, 2007, at 2:50 AM, Warren Lauzon wrote:
>
>>
>> And just to add insult to injury, now we have THREE types of cables/ 
>> connectors to deal with - the Solarline1, the Solarline2, and now  Tyco 
>> (and some modules, like SolarWorld, come with all 3 - imagine  your joy 
>> when you get a stack in with mixed cables...). And for all  the hype, the 
>> cost of the MC type cables is adding anywhere from  $25 to $40 per module 
>> install costs, and it is not reducing much -  if any - the install time, 
>> since we now have to spend a lot of time  securing the cables.
>>
>> I don't see this as progress, and not sure who's bright idea this  was. 
>> Not that MC type cables are bad in themselves, it is the lack  of 
>> flexibility now with the way modules are configured.
>>
>> Just to keep the range of cables, connectors, adaptors, and all the  rest 
>> to fit everything together is running our install parts  inventory we 
>> need to keep up to new highs.
>>
>> ...................................................................... 
>> ............................
>> Northern Arizona Wind & Sun - Electricity From The Sun
>> ...................................................................... 
>> ............................
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "William Miller" 
>> <wrmiller at charter.net>
>> To: <RE-wrenches at topica.com>
>> Sent: Friday, August 17, 2007 8:56 PM
>> Subject: Re: Missing Junction boxes on modules[RE-wrenches]
>>
>>
>>>
>>> Yes, Jeff, we are having this problem.  We knew it was coming,  however, 
>>> and you must have missed me bitching about it on this  forum.  Hopefully 
>>> this means I have not been overbearing on the  subject.
>>>
>>> Shell and then Solarworld had been offering the large frame  modules 
>>> with the pigtails, but they were removable.  We removed  hundreds of 
>>> them and threw them in a big old rusty battery box out  back.  We 
>>> substituted NMLT conduit for a much more reliable  installation.  Using 
>>> NMLT conduit is not expensive or time  consuming:  connectors are about 
>>> a buck each (less than a the cost  of an MC "gen 2" connector) and we 
>>> developed a technique for  installing NMLT connectors with a cordless 
>>> drill.  Time to install  one connector:  3 seconds.
>>>
>>> Just last week we received our first order of Solarworld SW175s  with 
>>> the loose wires that can not be removed or conduit  installed .  They 
>>> are for a ground mount, so we are particularly  concerned about having 
>>> loose wires underneath the modules (the  ties won't last).  The clients 
>>> have grandchildren who will regard  the ground mount racks as a jungle 
>>> gym.  We are working on a  system of wire tray that will encapsulate the 
>>> leads in a manner  that will be "untouchable."  We hope to apply for a 
>>> patent in the  near future so we will have a product available for the 
>>> industry  before someone gets killed.    So what if the ends are touch 
>>> safe,  rub one against an aluminum rail or rack frame or tile or comp 
>>> shingles a few dozens times and you'll see copper.
>>>
>>> It is my impression that most of the installers out there don't  give a 
>>> crap if kids are swinging from 600 V wires, they just want  to get the 
>>> job done faster for more profit.  This problem is  symptomatic of an 
>>> industry wide trend.  The industry is changing,  and not for the better. 
>>> There are more large corporate style  vendors and installers out there 
>>> who can afford to underbid us  locals.  I call it the Walmart-ization of 
>>> the industry. The  turnover in their crews is constant.  The work is 
>>> shoddy and the  sales practices are unethical.  We went to a 
>>> competitor's sales  seminar and the lies and half truths told were 
>>> disgusting.  Did  you know the California rebates are ending next week? 
>>> (They're  not.).  The local chapter of the Sierra Club stood up and 
>>> endorsed  them!!!  This is way out of line for an environmental group to 
>>> favor one vendor over another (likely because the local president  got 
>>> her installation done by them, maybe at a discount).
>>>
>>> Another thing:  to tool up for the inferior wiring system (MC)  will 
>>> cost us $2,000 and the delivery date is more than a month  out.  So once 
>>> we figure out how to protect our ground mount wires,  we get to wait for 
>>> 30 to 60 days before we can hook them up.
>>>
>>> Anyway, back to the unprotected wiring:  I know many are  comfortable 
>>> with the status quo and may not want to read this, but  I'd hoped that 
>>> enough of us share this concern that we could put  maybe put together a 
>>> petition and maybe an educational web site  and maybe speak out at a few 
>>> meetings. Anyone else out there  worried about safety???
>>>
>>> William Miller
>>>
>>
>>
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>>
>
> R. Walters
> Solarray.com
> NABCEP # 04170442
>
>
>
> --
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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>
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