Hot water at summer camp [RE-wrenches]

Nick Lucchese nickl at sierrasolar.com
Thu Apr 5 10:13:00 PDT 2007 

<x-flowed>

Oops sorry, meant to send directly to Tom.




>Greetings Tom,
>  Just wondering if you might have some advice on my personal solar 
>hot water system. It's a simple thermo-syphon design that utilizes 
>an old electric hot water heater and a 4x8 flat plate collector. 
>Been using it for 6 years now and it's been wonderful. Luckily I 
>have three of the collectors since I removed them from a customers 
>house years ago in preparation to build a shed dormer. One of the 
>collectors (I believe it's a Heliodyne) recently burst an inch long 
>gash in one of the internal finned 3/8" tubes. One of the other 
>collectors had come apart a bit so I just swapped out the copper 
>guts for now so I can get my shower operational again. I'm just 
>wondering the best way to repair that 3/8" tube. For one I can't 
>seem to find any couplers or standard copper fittings in that size. 
>Once I do find some I'm wondering if I should repair the gash or 
>just cap those two ends off and lose one of the 12 (guessing) 
>capillaries. I'm certainly not the greatest at soldering so at this 
>point I'm considering taking it into someone's shop who is. Any 
>suggestions?
>
>thanks for your time, nick
>
>
>
>>Hi All,
>>I strongly recommend the SunEarth Copper Heart versus the 
>>Progressive Tube (TCT) PT-40. The TCT PT-40 uses a .030 copper 
>>sheet that is welded to form a tube. We have had lots of problems 
>>with this leaking in agressive water. The Copper Heart  uses 
>>extruded .058 DWV copper pipe--almost twice as thick. I suggest a 
>>Rheem or Rudd 80 or 120 gallon wrap around heat exchange tank if 
>>the water is agressive(low ph., iron oxides, CO2 or O2, etc.. with 
>>a SunEarth or AET Drainback or pressurized glycol system.
>>Gator Tom
>>----- Original Message ----- From: "Ken Schaal" <ken at commonwealthsolar.com>
>>To: <RE-wrenches at topica.com>
>>Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2007 8:41 PM
>>Subject: Re: Hot water at summer camp [RE-wrenches]
>>
>>>
>>>Holt
>>>
>>>" as much water as hot as possible" sounds like an invitation to a 
>>>scalding lawsuit to me.There is a reason those conventional tanks 
>>>have all those warning labels on them.
>>>
>>>To get good answers, you need to ask the right questions.
>>>I haven't gotten answers to what I would consider the right 
>>>questions.Can the camp director not answer these?
>>>
>>>Ken
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>----- Original Message ----- From: "Holt Kelly" <holtek at sbcglobal.net>
>>>To: <RE-wrenches at topica.com>
>>>Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2007 10:34 AM
>>>Subject: RE: Hot water at summer camp [RE-wrenches]
>>>
>>>>
>>>>Ken,
>>>>Greatly appreciate the input.
>>>>In talking to camp director their idea is to get as much water as hot as
>>>>poosible. Their electric kwh rate is based on peak demand, so tankless
>>>>backup is not the way to go. On a scale of 1 to 5(hardest) water
>>>>hardness was rated a 4. Our thinking now is to go with one of two
>>>>systems: 1) TCT's PT40 or PT50 with a Marathon 85 conventional tank for
>>>>backup. Simple install, minimum maintenance, increased capacity.
>>>>Freezing issue is the only drawback. 2) Schuco Slimline 2 System. Pretty
>>>>much bullet proof, but very pricey. Would need to train camp staff to
>>>>monitor properly. Any thoughts out there?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Ken Schaal wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>Holt
>>>>>Maybe we should back up a bit and ask a few questions.
>>>>>1-- You said summer camp--June July and Aug? In Texas? Do they even want
>>>>>hot
>>>>>water of 120+ ?
>>>>>Or will it be more like 90-115?
>>>>>
>>>>>2-- Showers are for 1 hr. -- How many shower heads? flow rate? water
>>>>>pressure issues? length of shower? cold water temp?
>>>>>If we assume 14 kids and two showers at 2gpm ea. for 5min ea, then we
>>>>>have a
>>>>>total flow rate of 4gpm and a total on time of 35 min. with a 2 min
>>>>>break
>>>>>between showers, for a total draw in less than 50 min of 140 gal of
>>>>>shower
>>>>>temp water.
>>>>>
>>>>>3-- How close are the cabins? You said the solar resource was excellent
>>>>>to
>>>>>fair, so it sounds like some are shaded. If the cabins are grouped,
>>>>>maybe
>>>>>one system could serve multiple cabins?
>>>>>
>>>>>Depending on you answers, I'll suggest an appropriate system.
>>>>>
>>>>>Ken Schaal
>>>>>CommonWealth Solar,LLC
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>----- Original Message ----- From: "Darryl Thayer" <daryl_solar at yahoo.com>
>>>>>To: <RE-wrenches at topica.com>
>>>>>Sent: Sunday, March 18, 2007 12:36 PM
>>>>>Subject: RE: Hot water at summer camp [RE-wrenches]
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  Don"t underestimate the tremendous power draw of these
>>>>>>  heaters.  If the campers run out of hot water and they
>>>>>>  start using the 70 amps per leg per cabin this will
>>>>>>  wipe you out fast.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  The problems I have had and even in my own house has
>>>>>>  been the temperature changes as you try to shower.
>>>>>>  When the flow rate is steady only one shower and the
>>>>>>  solar is not to hot, the unit will turn on, on medium
>>>>>>  fire, and the user actually adjusts the temperature by
>>>>>>  flow rate.  If the solar is to hot the unit will hunt
>>>>>>  on its own accord with the high limit shutting it off
>>>>>>  and the temp changing.  Now if you add a second
>>>>>>  shower, it comes on and now the temp drops, then the
>>>>>>  first shower adjusts either the flow or the mix (same
>>>>>>  thing) the second shower changes temp and they adjust
>>>>>>  the first then changes temp and they adjust AAAhhhh!
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  Now I explain this to people who have solar and
>>>>>>  instant water heaters, and that I will not guarantee
>>>>>>  satisfaction, and I still get customers saying it is
>>>>>>  my problem when they are unhappy, and I need to fix
>>>>>>  that.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  When people get experience they understand how to
>>>>>>  adjust and do not have two showers on at once and get
>>>>>>  by OK.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  Mixing valves will do this for you automatically, but
>>>>>>  they usually fall out of the range of acceptable temp
>>>>>>  range.
>>>>>>  --- Holt Kelly <holtek at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>  Darryl,
>>>>>>>  Could you eleaborate a bit on why the customers were
>>>>>>>  "unhappy" and on
>>>>>>>  the "tricks needed" for uniform temps? The only
>>>>>>>  complaint that I have
>>>>>>>  gotten on electric tankless (besides spinning the
>>>>>>>  meter at 1000rpm)is
>>>>>>>  the loud clicks of the relays during start-up (Eemax
>>>>>>>  brand). Thanks for
>>>>>>>  your input.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>  Darryl Thayer wrote:
>>>>>>>  >
>>>>>>>  > Hello
>>>>>>>  > I agree, except for the back-up heater.  I have
>>>>>>>  > installed up to 70A-240 volt instant heaters with
>>>>>>>  > unhappy customers.  I have installed even the
>>>>>>>  TAGAI
>>>>>>>  > which is rated for solar with unhappy customers
>>>>>>>  > because of the tricks that must be played to get a
>>>>>>>  > shower of uniform temperature.  If the goal is
>>>>>>>  > reasonable showers then use a tank type back up
>>>>>>>  > heater.
>>>>>>>  > Darryl
>>>>>  I have been asked to design a hot water system
>>>>>>>  at
>>>>>>>  > > a summer camp. 21
>>>>>>>  > > > seperate sytems. Hot water for showers is used
>>>>>>>  > > from 4:30pm to 5:30pm(14
>>>>>>>  > > > showers)per system, very little use the rest
>>>>>>>  of
>>>>>>>  > > the day. Solar resource
>>>>>>>  > > > is excellent to fair. My initial thoughts were
>>>>>>>  2-
>>>>>>>  > > 40gal passive
>>>>>>>  > > > collectors with an electric tankless backup
>>>>>>>  (need
>>>>>>>  > > to keep maintenance to
>>>>>>>  > > > a minimum). Or possibly Helio-flo with single
>>>>>>>  > > tank. Any thoughts out
>>>>>>>  > > > there?
>>>>>>>  > > >
>>>>>>>  > > > Holt E. Kelly
>>>>>>>  > > > Holtek Fireplace & Solar Products
>>>>>>>  > > > Waco, TX.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Holt E. Kelly
>>>>Holtek Fireplace & Solar Products
>>>>Waco, TX.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>- - - -
>>>>To send a message: RE-wrenches at topica.com
>>>>
>>>>Archive of previous messages: 
>>>>http://lists.topica.com/lists/RE-wrenches/read
>>>>
>>>>List rules & how to change your email address: 
>>>>www.mrsharkey.com/wrenches/etiquette.php
>>>>
>>>>Check out participant bios: www.mrsharkey.com/wrenches/
>>>>
>>>>Hosted by Home Power magazine
>>>>
>>>>Moderator: michael.welch at homepower.com
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>- - - -
>>>To send a message: RE-wrenches at topica.com
>>>
>>>Archive of previous messages: http://lists.topica.com/lists/RE-wrenches/read
>>>
>>>List rules & how to change your email address: 
>>>www.mrsharkey.com/wrenches/etiquette.php
>>>
>>>Check out participant bios: www.mrsharkey.com/wrenches/
>>>
>>>Hosted by Home Power magazine
>>>
>>>Moderator: michael.welch at homepower.com
>>>
>>
>>
>>- - - -
>>To send a message: RE-wrenches at topica.com
>>
>>Archive of previous messages: http://lists.topica.com/lists/RE-wrenches/read
>>
>>List rules & how to change your email address: 
>>www.mrsharkey.com/wrenches/etiquette.php
>>
>>Check out participant bios: www.mrsharkey.com/wrenches/
>>
>>Hosted by Home Power magazine
>>
>>Moderator: michael.welch at homepower.com
>
>
>--
>Nick A Lucchese
>NABCEP Certified PV Installer
>General Contractor # 808851
>Sierra Solar Systems
>563C Idaho Maryland Road
>Grass Valley, CA 95945
>tech info and foreign orders:  (530) 273-6754
>order line: (800) 51-SOLAR (US only)   FAX:  (530) 273-1760
>e-mail:  <mailto:nickl at sierrasolar.com>
>world wide web:  <http://www.sierrasolar.com>
>
>
>- - - -
>To send a message: RE-wrenches at topica.com
>
>Archive of previous messages: http://lists.topica.com/lists/RE-wrenches/read
>
>List rules & how to change your email address: 
>www.mrsharkey.com/wrenches/etiquette.php
>
>Check out participant bios: www.mrsharkey.com/wrenches/
>
>Hosted by Home Power magazine
>
>Moderator: michael.welch at homepower.com


-- 
Nick A Lucchese
NABCEP Certified PV Installer
General Contractor # 808851
Sierra Solar Systems
563C Idaho Maryland Road
Grass Valley, CA 95945
tech info and foreign orders:  (530) 273-6754
order line: (800) 51-SOLAR (US only)   FAX:  (530) 273-1760
e-mail:  <mailto:nickl at sierrasolar.com>
world wide web:  <http://www.sierrasolar.com>


- - - -
To send a message: RE-wrenches at topica.com

Archive of previous messages: http://lists.topica.com/lists/RE-wrenches/read

List rules & how to change your email address: www.mrsharkey.com/wrenches/etiquette.php

Check out participant bios: www.mrsharkey.com/wrenches/

Hosted by Home Power magazine

Moderator: michael.welch at homepower.com
--^----------------------------------------------------------------
This email was sent to: michael.welch at homepower.com

EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?bz8Qcs.bz9JC9.bWljaGFl
Or send an email to: RE-wrenches-unsubscribe at topica.com

For Topica's complete suite of email marketing solutions visit:
http://www.topica.com/?p=TEXFOOTER
--^----------------------------------------------------------------



</x-flowed>

More information about the RE-wrenches mailing list