Outback generator support [WAS Advice sought for large off grid PV system] [

Allan Sindelar allan at positiveenergysolar.com
Mon Apr 2 15:49:04 PDT 2007


Yes, as I understand it. The AC2/GEN INPUT LIMIT setting in effect uses the
AC setting to limit the DC charge rate, not the actual AC input. Load
pass-through can exceed the setting.
Allan

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jeff Wongstrom" <thirstylake at interbel.net>
To: <RE-wrenches at topica.com>
Sent: Monday, April 02, 2007 8:28 AM
Subject: Re: Outback generator support [WAS Advice sought for large off grid
PV system; 4


>
>
> Thanks Allan, I am an Outback fan and appreciate the constructive
> criticism.
>
> I have this issue in an Outback system that originally had a single
> VFX 3524 and 800ah battery which had no problem with tripping the
> breakers of a 6.5KW Onan full output 120VAC.  When a second inverter
> was added the generator breakers started to trip during the usual
> laundry and vacuuming routine.  The 'solution' has been to drop the
> second charger out by turning down the charge rate.  Unfortunately,
> this drops the charge rate back to less than C/10 as a single charger
> does not put out more than 70a.  We do a lot of winter generator
> charging in NW Montana and do not mind hitting the batteries with C/5.
>
> I had thought that the charger would back off and allow the generator
> to power loads without tripping gen breakers by limiting generator
> input with AC2/GEN INPUT LIMIT.  Is this the same as 'the inverter
> won't limit the pass-through load' ?
>
> Jeff Wongstrom
> NABCEP Certified Solar Installer
> Thirsty Lake Solar
> 406-889-5324
>
>
> On Apr 1, 2007, at 11:22 PM, Allan Sindelar wrote:
>
> >
> > No, Outback doesn't have generator support, at least not yet.
> >
> > The lack of generator support is a real issue. Somehow I just hadn't
> > realized the consequence of this, even after four years of working
> > with FX
> > inverters. So I am calling attention to this now so others don't
> > make the
> > same mistake.
> >
> > You can set the charge rate for the inverter, but you can't size the
> > inverter to optimize generator charging. This is because the
> > inverter won't
> > limit the pass-through load. Outback suggests about 50%
> > overcapacity beyond
> > what is necessary for charging.
> >
> > At our elevation range, a 3kW inverter-generator will put out
> > around 18-19A
> > AC continuous, which is ideally suited for charging with one
> > Outback, which
> > draws 19A maximum for charging purposes. However, if charging is
> > set at this
> > level, there is no headroom for additional pass-through loads.
> >
> > The Yamaha 3kW inverter-generator will just lug, I have learned,
> > until the
> > load is reduced. But the 3kW Honda inverter-generator will trip its
> > output
> > breaker, which requires manual restart of the gennie.
> >
> > I understand that Outback is working on this obvious shortcoming.
> > My hope is
> > that it will be available as a field upgrade, at least for existing
> > non-GT
> > models.
> >
> > For now, on the one single-FX off-grid system that has an existing 3kW
> > Honda, we instructed the customer to turn off the main AC load
> > breaker when
> > charging from the generator. It's a less than satisfactory
> > solution, but so
> > is arbitrarily turning down the charge rate.
> >
> > Be forewarned, and avoid my mistake.
> >
> > Allan at Positive Energy
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "William Miller" <wrmiller at charter.net>
> > Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2007 9:48 AM
> >>
> >> Outback has generator support?  That is news to me!  When did this
> >> occur?
> >>
> >> William Miller
> >>
> >>
> >> At 08:53 PM 3/28/2007, you wrote:
> >>
> >>> Outback and xantrex can support generator power, I
> >>> have a 3 phase support system that was originally to
> >>> be 55kW, and I found it to be cost effective up to the
> >>> 55 kW.  Also Outback, and Xantrex, and SMA have
> >>> products that can generator support and inverter
> >>> support.
> >>>
> >>> What is wrong with using transformers?
> >>>
> >>> Darryl
> >
>
>
> --
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
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