Tri-Metric (was Flexnet DC) [RE-wrenches]

Thu Nov 15 15:30:57 PST 2007

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Thanks Allen and Bob-O,

  Allen- I'm not necessarily saying that I have problems with them but 
it tends to be one of the most technical components from a customers 
standpoint. I know it shouldn't be, it's just three buttons right? 
Even after setting it up for them and after providing a tutorial I 
see a glazed over look in their eye with a lot of unconvincing 
nodding. I also always like to encourage my customers to read manuals 
and although well written, the Trimetric manual makes one's head 
spin. This one is quite often too difficult to overcome and I 
acknowledge that even the new Flexnet equipment may face this same 
issue. If a system owner is confused by this newly introduced 
terminology then they will most likely resort to observing voltage 
and may not apply themselves to learning it until their first 
batteries fail. I know that the new Flexnet will not be the answer to 
everything but I have a hunch that the layout will be more 
understandable to the common person as well as provide me with more 
data when I visit the site.

  If the batteries are not fully charged often then the "Battery % 
full" values will become more and more out of sync over time. That is 
what I was referring to when I say that it needs to be re-calibrated. 
There is never a substitute for fully charging one's batteries but 
that does not mean that folks will charge their batteries 
appropriately. So I guess I'm saying that there is a class of people 
out there that it's almost a disservice to sell them a $185 
voltmeter. That all said I appreciate what you've shared and have 
some additional questions.

  What would the conservative amp hour # be that you typically set? As 
low as 80% of stated manu's specs or?

  If setting the "Charged Voltage' criteria low enough to compensate 
for warm "summer" batteries what happens in the winter when the 
batteries are cold? Wouldn't the customer always be led to believe 
the batteries are full when in fact they still have a few 10ths of 
the way to go? Perhaps educate the customer enough to change these 
set points twice a year?

Bob-O, are you just measuring the the 2 channels -charge and load? 
Two shunts in a PS2/4 or Flexware or? When you say production units 
being shipped that means from a distributor ready to go into a 
customer's system?

Thanks again to the two of you for taking the time to respond, Nick A Lucchese

>Nick,
>We have long had a basic policy that every battery-based system gets a
>Tri-Metric, and have never regretted it. We don't experience the problems
>you describe, so maybe it's your setup. Here are a few secrets I have
>learned over the years:
>1. We always set the display (in setup mode from the blank screen) to P01,
>not P00: 1% increments, automatic reset. This eliminates the useless "FUL",
>allows closer incremental readings, and eliminates the need for the customer
>to reset anything except the EQ counter. (The 1% option is a main reason we
>have never used the Xantrex/Trace TM500 meter, which lacked that option.)
>2. We set the amp-hours somewhat lower than actual C/20 or C/100 rates, to
>build in a bit of reserve.
>3. We always go over use of all of the functions upon system startup and
>orientation, emphasizing percent and amps as key functions. We downplay
>voltage as only a "corroborating value" that will reveal patterns as it
>becomes familiar.
>4. Years ago we prepared a Tri-Metric log form (thanks to Dan Rice), several
>copies of which go in the system manual. We tell the customer to fill it out
>several times a day/night for the first couple of weeks, then daily for a
>couple of months, until patterns begin to emerge and the system indicators
>become familiar.
>5. The Tri-Met goes in the kitchen or hall, not the power room; it's got to
>be a part of daily consciousness to be used.
>6. 97H works well with standard flooded batteries, 94H won't always reset.
>7. Set the charged voltage setting far enough below temperature-compensated
>controller bulk voltage to allow reset when the batteries are warm in late
>summer. We use about 0.8V with a 24V system. Set amps to around 2% of
>battery capacity; more (or even defeated) with an undersized array.
>
>The real beauty of all this is that we can often avoid callbacks and
>billable service calls by phone troubleshooting. And the CAH is our ace in
>the hole when batteries fail before the customer thought they should have.
>
>Hope this helps.
>Allan at Positive Energy
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Nick Lucchese" <nickl at sierrasolar.com>
>To: <RE-wrenches at topica.com>
>Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2007 3:02 PM
>Subject: Flexnet DC [RE-wrenches]
>
>
>>
>>  Hello Wrenches,
>  I'm really excited
>>  for this product as I'm constantly challenged with customers that are
>>  unwilling/unable to provide adequate feedback on their system. The
>>  Trimetric is great if the customer is technically able but 90% of the
>>  time they are left on the "Volts" screen and never re-calibrated.
>>  Thanks again for your time,
>>
>>  Nick A Lucchese
>
>
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-- 
Nick A Lucchese
NABCEP Certified PV Installer
Planet Home
General Contractor # 808851
Sierra Solar Systems
563C Idaho Maryland Road
Grass Valley, CA 95945
tech info and foreign orders:  (530) 273-6754
order line: (800) 51-SOLAR (US only)   FAX:  (530) 273-1760
e-mail:  <mailto:nickl at sierrasolar.com>
world wide web:  <http://www.sierrasolar.com>

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