code advocate [RE-wrenches]

Fri Nov 3 17:07:05 PST 2006

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Hi Folks,

Whoever and whenever we are represented my big issues are:

1) Being able to feed the opposite side of a panel lug or otherwise 
relaxing the 100% rule on commercial.  Even a 110% rule would be a 
great plus - but if fed from both sides - perhaps a higher percentage.

2) Rating the solar system max output AC to the PTC (AC) calc or max 
DC output times max inverter efficiency - not the max inverter 
rating.  e.g. If you have an 80 KW array on a Sunny Central - it's 
crazy to have to size the interconnect to 125 KW.  Same applies to 
smaller systems - recently did a 4 KW (DC) array on a SB 6000 - We 
used a 30 Amp breaker on a 150 Amp panel - got away with it on this 
job but technically it should have been a 40 Amp breaker and that 
would have thrown us over 120%.  The whole solar system should be the 
system that is "nameplate rated" - not the inverter.   Provisions can 
easily be made for not allowing expansion - or at that time requiring 
the larger interconnection equipment.

3) Would love to be able to call the DC Disconnect the Service 
Entrance point.  That way you could have your DC grounding electrode 
conductor on a ground bar in the DC disconnect.  The inverter is then 
analogous to a main panel when the meter socket has been used for 
neutral bonding.  This business of having to install a grounding 
electrode conductor in the inverter is awkward and unecessary and 
hard to pull off easily in many cases - especially with multiple 
inverters.  This is off-base in IMHO.  This also makes more sense for 
those of us in lightning country.  That way the major ground path is 
through the DC disco to ground - with the inverter having only an 
equipment ground.

4)  Also 690.94 should not apply to dedicated solar distribution AC 
panels when only the solar is in the panel.  For example I just had 
to size a 6 SB6000 system subpanel to 120 Amps instead of 60 Amps 
because theoretically you are supposed to have the bus be able to 
handle the sum of both sides - the 60 Amp breaker feeding the 
subpanel - and the sum of the inverter output breakers.  But this 
assumes power can flow in both directions - and it can't.  If no 
other loads are allowed in the subpanel then 60 Amps would do it. 
Perhaps we could agree to some way of ensuring that no other loads 
are placed on the panel - like locking out those extra spaces - or 
simple signage.

Those are my major issues I see the code needs work on.

Do we have a process on this list for discussing issues needing 
resolve and a way to collate the best thinking?

Best,

Jeff Clearwater
NABCEP (tm) Certified Solar PV Installer
Village Power Design

>I believe that Bill Brooks is this kind of "SE" (solar engineer) type who is
>trying to change the busbar rating as well as other aspects of the code. I
>agree that inspectors often don't see the big picture, but I do see the code
>changing in a direction that makes sense for solar and we are being
>represented. I would send your code concerns to Bill.
>
>BA
>Brad Albert
>Rising Sun Solar
>PO Box 790807
>Paia, HI 96779
>O (808) 579-8287
>C (808) 268-9753
>brad at risingsunsolar.com
>--
>
>
>
>
>On 11/3/06 6:45 AM, "Jay Peltz, Peltz Power" <jay at asis.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>  Hi Allan,
>>
>>  At the risk of stirring up trouble.
>>
>>  It appears that we need a advocate in the PV industry not a code
>>  interpreter.
>>  Someone who will look at the situation and look for creative ways to
>>  work with or push for change of the code instead of
>>  grinding us down with it.
>>
>>  And we need to get this done soon as we  are being held to different
>>  standards, and it appears that no one is on our side.
>>  ( look at the grounding issues for a big one, but just one)
>>
>>  I would think such a person would be an EE, smart, creative and
>>  diplomatic.
>>  If we need to get a fund together to pay for such a position it would
>>  be the cheapest money we've spent, and
>>  I for one will happily pay.
>>
>>  If I'm off base, my apologies  now.
>>
>>  jay
>>
>>  peltz power
>>
>>
>>
>>  On Nov 2, 2006, at 8:47 PM, Allan Sindelar wrote:
>  >
>>>
>>>  I am reposting this in hopes of a reply addressing this issue from
>>>  Chris
>>>  Freitas.
>>>
>>>  I was at an all-day John Wiles PV/Code workshop today. This is a
>>>  real issue.
>>>  As few homes have service panels larger than 200A, there's no legal
>>>  way to
>>>  tap a PS1 or PS2 into a standard panel. It either has to be a
>>>  second service
>>>  entrance or a downsized main breaker.
>>>
>>>  According to John (note that all of our regional inspectors were
>>>  there...)
>>>  even the 50A AC breakers aren't usable at their claimed 100% duty
>>>  cycle
>>>  (thus avoiding the 80% derating) as they haven't been tested and
>>>  listed for
>>>  use in the Outback enclosures they're installed in. It's an issue
>>>  of heat
>>>  buildup.
>>>
>>>  Chris, please address these issues for us Wrenches.
>>>
>>>  Thanks,
>>>  Allan
>>>
>>>  ----- Original Message -----
>>
>>
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>>
>>
>>
>
>
>- - - -
>To send a message: RE-wrenches at topica.com
>
>Archive of previous messages: http://lists.topica.com/lists/RE-wrenches/read
>
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-- 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Jeff Clearwater
Village Power Design
Sustainable Energy & Water Solutions for Home & Village
http://www.villagepower.com
gosolar at villagepower.com
NABCEP (tm) Certified Solar PV Installer

530-470-9166
877-SOLARVillage
877-765-2784
65 Schoolhouse Rd
Amherst, MA 01002
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~`~

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