Modern Jacobs [RE-wrenches]

Wed Jul 20 15:39:52 PDT 2005

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Thanks Geoff and Bob,

All good points.  But I'm not sure it's quite that simple.

By my calculations, assuming the Jacobs doesn't throw a blade or loose an
inverter (multiple times really stinks) it would take at least an 11 mph
site to pay for the added maintenance cost of the Jacobs 20 kW vs. the
Bergey 10 kW.  A 20 kW Jacobs should easily produce over 3x's the annual
energy of the Excel-S by all accounts.  That's pretty attractive since it
cost less then Bergey Excel-S.  But you have to take care of it.  I've got
friends in the machine shop business that could easily duplicate any part on
the Jacobs just for the challenge of doing it.  So I'm not afraid of that
part at all.  Even a Bergey requires maintenance. 

I believe the Mastermind inverter is UL listed in some manner.  Just not
listed by today's interconnection standard.  No problems that I'm aware of
it causing back feed or power quality problems.  Bergey's IEE/UL Grid Tek
will eliminate the entire AM radio band your customers house, by the way.

I've talked to several others experienced with the Jacobs and WTI and it
appears they are manufacturing the entire turbine at this point.  I've heard
the same stories about selling excess inventory and that's pretty hard to
believe after nearly 20 years.  WTI is actually part of a machine shop
business.  They admit that some parts are out sourced.  The fiberglass
blades, for example.  Bergey's blades aren't made in house either though.

In my mind there's not a clear winner.  Jacobs aren't that simple and their
inverter is crude but actually pretty efficient, Bergey's are much simpler
and their inverter is accepted everywhere.  WTI could be gone tomorrow, but
so could Bergey.  Both machines enjoy a well deserved fanatical following.
They both have their place.

Best,

Travis Creswell
Ozark Energy Services, Inc.

-----Original Message-----
From: Geoff Greenfield [mailto:Geoff at Third-Sun.Com] 
Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2005 10:17 AM
To: RE-wrenches at topica.com
Subject: RE: Modern Jacobs [RE-wrenches]

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Travis - we have numerous wti Jacobs here in OH , and numerous failures!  I
stay away and steer my customers away.  the complicated design gets more
power and has more potential for failure - it's a shame they use the same
name as Jacobs - the old stuff was great.  My sources say WTI bought the
(new) business and a ton of inventory, then shut down the lines and is only
fabing the parts needed to sell the remaining inventory - so that doesn't
inspire confidence in support etc down the line.  Me and my Bergey 10k lost
a bid to a Jacobs 20k at a very high visibility park... monopole, utility
footing the bill etc... on the basis of $/watt first cost.  I played the
lifetime cost card and lost - I now feel vindicated that the Jacobs has been
down 3 times, went through 3 scary inverters (none with UL listing) and has
recently thrown a blade (no injury praise Jah).

You get what you pay for and units that last cost more.

For a brighter energy future,

Geoff Greenfield
NABCEP Certified Energy Practitioner

THIRD SUN SOLAR & WIND POWER Ltd.
340 West State Street
Athens, OH 45701

www.third-sun.com
(740) 597-3111

-----Original Message-----
From: RE-wrenches at topica.com [mailto:RE-wrenches at topica.com]
Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2005 7:09 AM
To: RE-wrenches at topica.com
Subject: Digest for RE-wrenches at topica.com, issue 1831

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2005 12:36:30 -0500
From: "Travis Creswell" <ozsolar at ipa.net>
Subject: Modern Jacobs

Hello All,

Please excuse is this is a repeat for those also on the AWEA list.

I am researching the Jacobs turbine manufactured by WTI from Prior Lake, MN.
We have installed small turbines of all sizes including the 10 kW Bergey
Excel-S and a 65 kW Nordtank.  But we have no experience with the Jacobs
machine.  It does enjoy a great reputation but we've all been bit by
products with great reputations.

We already have approval from the local utility to use the Jacobs turbine
with MasterMind inverter.  Combined with our low wind resource and
customer's energy needs we are looking at the 20 kW model.

The customer understands that the Jacobs will require maintenance and has no
problem with that.  They will contract us to do it.

I'd really like to hear of others direct experience with these Jacobs
machines from WTI.  Good or bad.  Any thing you have, on or off list would
be appreciated.

Thanks so much in advance,

Travis Creswell

Ozark Energy Services, Inc.

10633 Foliage Rd.

Joplin, MO 64804

417-623-6296

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