Takagi water heater [RE-wrenches]

[Bill Loesch, Saint Louis Solar]

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Jay,

The entire philosophy of mounting a water heater outside in a freezing
climate should be relegated to the odds makers in Vegas.
Would you want to bet the near $1,000 equipment cost that there will be no
power outage during freezing weather? Do you want to service that heater in
the freezing temperatures after there is a power failure? Did you provide
for heating of the connecting plumbing as well as the heater itself?
Thanks, but no thanks for this belt and suspenders person. 

If the tankless manufacturers were tuned in to what really gives them
problems it would be scaling of the half inch tube that serves as the heat
exchanger in nearly all tankless units. In a hard water area (like St.
Louis, MO) I have seen significant scale deposits as early as two years
after installation (city water). On well water (obviously with significant
hardness) a descaling operation may need to be performed monthly, if the
user allows the default temperature (higher than necessary for bathing) to
control the hot water production. WebstoneValves.com has a speciality combo
valve (EXP) that incorporates shutoff and isolation valves that allow
relatively easy descaling. Nothing you can't sweat together yourself, just
a compact and attractive unit.

According to the water softener people there is another general
classification of hardness - "very hard". I'll bet that well water I
mentioned above would qualify for the very hard defination.

The solution for the well water person was a water softener. The tankless
worked well after that addition. An alternative to the salt or potasium
enriched water produced by a water softener that some people describe as
silky and others describe as slimy could be a water conditioner. I don't
want to reopen the devisive discussion as to the effectiveness of water
conditioners (of which there are a multitude, some of which are marketed by
ex snake oil salespeople, IMHO) other than to say if works for me here in
STL and provides the health conscious user with an alternative to perhaps
monthly descaling. The well water user was alreading using a steam
distiller for their drinking water, so the water softener was basically
preventive maintenance for their entire plumbing system.

Good luck with your tankless (and solar) installations.

Bill Loesch, Solar1 - Saint Louis Solar, tel/fax 314 631 1094


Message text written by INTERNET:RE-wrenches at topica.com
>
Hi Bill,

The other electrical part is the freeze protection which is an  
electrical heating element since the units are designed to be mounted  
outside in all weather.

For those that live in really cold winters this drain could be a big  
problem.

jay

peltz power
>
>
> Dave Palumbo,
>
>  As you are probably aware, the T-KD20 is a sealed combustion  
> refinement of
> the T-K2 which is a slightly bigger T-K1 (and some other refinements).
>
> Since all these machines incorporate a GFCI, I can guarantee you  
> that the
> advertizing hype of "uses no energy when not producing hot water"  
> is a bit
> of poetic license. What their (obviously non technical pureists) ad  
> copy
> people should have said was "...no _gas_ energy...".
>
> Unfortunately, I am not aware of _any_ sealed combustion tankless  
> heater
> that also does not have an addiction for AC power.
>
> There are more than one tankless units available that use no AC  
> power _and_
> have no standing pilot flame, but these are not sealed combustion  
> units.
>
> There is an available wired remote control for the Takagi water  
> heaters
> (adjusts the temperature from the remote location as well as provides
> rudamentary diagnostics for fault isolation) which elliminates at  
> least its
> own display when the off position is selected. Perhaps Chi (sp?) at  
> Takagi
> in CA  (tel 888 882 5244) can give you the latest lowdown on this  
> machine
> in concert with the remote.
>
> Good luck,
<

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