Module Ratings--was: About the CEC [RE-wrenches]

[Bill Brooks]

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Joel,

Who has the time, money, experience, and testing hardware to call
manufacturers STC ratings into question? Nobody so far. Why do you want the
press to grab a ripoff story? That's just another black eye for our
industry. In this age of module shortages, manufacturers can allow their
specs to widen and nobody can complain because where else are you going to
buy modules?

Honest ratings sound like an ideal marketing angle accept for the fact that
Mobile Solar tried it in the 1980's and almost went out of business (oh,
they did but ASE bought them). Maybe your time working for manufacturers has
made you sensitive to their needs, which is good--but the reason that
Germany is starting to get better product is that they finally figured out
how far off the previous product was. A production incentive requires that
you have a MUCH MORE ACCURATE understanding of a module's output, not the
other way around.

If we truly want to see production incentives, we are going to have to
require much tighter tolerances on our module performance data. Sorry Peter,
flash testing from the factory for individual modules may be helpful, but it
is not going to solve this problem.

The CEC is tasked with making sure that the State's ratepayer moneys are
properly spent. They are NOT simply a handout mechanism for the rebate. They
are accountable in the law to monitor the process and see that the money is
spent wisely (consumers get Watt they paid for).

While on the subject, how many people who read this list actually realize
that the +/-5% tolerance number you get from a manufacturer on typical
crystalline silicon product is measured before the module goes through Light
Induced Degradation (LID) of 2-4%. What this means is that a manufacture
with +/-5% tolerance is really +2%/-8% after one day in the field. However,
all their warranties are state with a minimum of 10% below rating on +/-5%
product. That is why most typical products today are 7-10% below specs. This
is a statistical certainty based on the binning process of modules and the
way our industry has operated for over 25 years.

Knowing all that mess, you can now accurately design a PV system. Now I ask
you--is this the way you think our industry should be allowed to continue to
operate?--Makes no sense to me.

Bill.




-----Original Message-----
From: Joel Davidson [mailto:joeldavidson at earthlink.net] 
Sent: Tuesday, April 05, 2005 6:20 PM
To: RE-wrenches at topica.com
Subject: Re: Module Ratings--was: About the CEC [RE-wrenches]


Ignorance is not bliss. Anyone really concerned about manufacturers fudging 
on their STC ratings is free to speak up. There are lots of reporters 
begging for another consumer ripoff story. Who are the guilty manufacturers?

Who is holding back the facts? Besides, honest ratings are an ideal 
marketing angle. Here's an ad slogan for some smart, honest manufacturer - 
Get watt you pay for.

Joel Davidson

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Bill Brooks" <bill at brooksolar.com>
To: <RE-wrenches at topica.com>
Sent: Tuesday, April 05, 2005 3:31 PM
Subject: Module Ratings--was: About the CEC [RE-wrenches]

Joel,

So your saying that ignorance is bliss...? I know the PTC rating on the CEC
list has its problems (no testing to support the data). I've always called
it the bastardized PTC rating (since its not a PTC rating at all, its a
module dc rating at PTC conditions--big difference--and for all those who
think otherwise, there is no testing to support the PTC data-did I say that
already?)--therefore I refer to it as the CEC rating.

That being said, we need something to keep manufacturers from consistently
fudging 10% on their STC ratings. We also need something to reward
manufacturers that don't fudge their ratings. I the STC method used for New
York, so I know that method can work--it still does not address the
underlieing problem. Our industry needs to get real. The inverter
manufacturers have had to ante up on the performance side so why shouldn't
the module manufacturers (that are selling everything they make and then
some). Module real STC outputs are farther off their nameplate ratings than
the inverter manufacturers were off on their published ratings--that's a
fact. It's time to do something about it.

Bill.



-----Original Message-----
From: Joel Davidson [mailto:joeldavidson at earthlink.net]
Sent: Tuesday, April 05, 2005 1:43 PM
To: RE-wrenches at topica.com
Subject: Re: About the CEC [RE-wrenches]

PTC AC ratings are a waste of time. When the California incentive program
was being developed, it was decided to use PTC AC to calculate rebates to
protect consumers from sellers giving inaccurate power and energy estimates
either intentionally or from lack of knowledge. DC STC based incentives work
well in other states. Joel Davidson

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