Module Ratings--was: About the CEC [RE-wrenches]

[Matt Tritt]

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There's been haggling on a wind list lately about just this problem as 
well. With wind equipment, though, there is no accepted norm in rating 
the output of a turbine; instead, one manufacturer will use a "target" 
output - say 2,000 Watts @ 14 meters per second - while another will 
claim 2,000 Watts @ 12 M/S. Obviously enough, the later will produce a 
hell of a lot more energy in a "typical" wind situation than the former, 
yet they both claim to be 2 kW turbines.

It occurs to me (and others) that the only logical and fair method of 
rating wind turbines, and solar arrays, is not by a claimed 
instantaneous power output, but by actual power production at a given 
site measured in an acceptable way, such as a standard kWh meter in-line 
with the buy/sell meter. I believe that this is the fair way of giving 
rebates as well even though the process of purchasing a system would not 
be as attractive as it is under the current regime. Perhaps a program 
offering interest-free loans coupled with very high buy-back rates to 
the producers for a specific time period (as in Germany and maybe soon 
in Washington)
would be enough to make everyone happy? If it were done this way the 
"approval" list of equipment would be somewhat moot as the real proof of 
a system would be in energy sold to the grid, not what the CEC thought 
of individual components.

When rebates are left to the State Drones to approve (or not) and no 
caveats are in place to ensure that everyone is getting what they are 
expecting from all this effort, both individually and collectively, no 
one really wins.

Matt T

Peter Duchon wrote:

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>-----Original Message-----
>From: Joel Davidson [mailto:joeldavidson at earthlink.net]
>Sent: Tuesday, April 05, 2005 6:20 PM
>To: RE-wrenches at topica.com
>Subject: Re: Module Ratings--was: About the CEC [RE-wrenches]
>
>
>Ignorance is not bliss. Anyone really concerned about manufacturers fudging
>on their STC ratings is free to speak up. There are lots of reporters
>begging for another consumer ripoff story. Who are the guilty manufacturers?
>Who is holding back the facts? Besides, honest ratings are an ideal
>marketing angle. Here's an ad slogan for some smart, honest manufacturer -
>Get watt you pay for.
>
>Joel Davidson
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Bill Brooks" <bill at brooksolar.com>
>To: <RE-wrenches at topica.com>
>Sent: Tuesday, April 05, 2005 3:31 PM
>Subject: Module Ratings--was: About the CEC [RE-wrenches]
>
>
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>Joel,
>
>So your saying that ignorance is bliss...? I know the PTC rating on the CEC
>list has its problems (no testing to support the data). I've always called
>it the bastardized PTC rating (since its not a PTC rating at all, its a
>module dc rating at PTC conditions--big difference--and for all those who
>think otherwise, there is no testing to support the PTC data-did I say that
>already?)--therefore I refer to it as the CEC rating.
>
>That being said, we need something to keep manufacturers from consistently
>fudging 10% on their STC ratings. We also need something to reward
>manufacturers that don't fudge their ratings. I the STC method used for New
>York, so I know that method can work--it still does not address the
>underlieing problem. Our industry needs to get real. The inverter
>manufacturers have had to ante up on the performance side so why shouldn't
>the module manufacturers (that are selling everything they make and then
>some). Module real STC outputs are farther off their nameplate ratings than
>the inverter manufacturers were off on their published ratings--that's a
>fact. It's time to do something about it.
>
>Bill.
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Joel Davidson [mailto:joeldavidson at earthlink.net]
>Sent: Tuesday, April 05, 2005 1:43 PM
>To: RE-wrenches at topica.com
>Subject: Re: About the CEC [RE-wrenches]
>
>PTC AC ratings are a waste of time. When the California incentive program
>was being developed, it was decided to use PTC AC to calculate rebates to
>protect consumers from sellers giving inaccurate power and energy estimates
>either intentionally or from lack of knowledge. DC STC based incentives work
>well in other states. Joel Davidson
>
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