battery shoot-off [RE-wrenches]

[Joel Davidson]

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Hi Doug,

As always, your advice is right on. MK does offer good batteries and good
service.

I sold a lot of Trojan and IBE batteries to off-grid PV buyers from 1982 to
1996 with almost no problems. The few Absolyte battery banks I sold to
upscale customers only lasted 5 years on average due to being sized to 80%
depth of discharge and battery room temperatures that ranged from 45 F to 90
F.

Now I advise off-grid people to buy flooded deep-cycle batteries from their
nearest stocking battery distributor because batteries need servicing which
is facilitated by a good relationship with the local vendor. Mail-order and
internet companies can not give good battery service except to local
customers. I advise on-grid people to buy sealed batteries and accessories
from a local UPS battery distributor and get the local info needed to avoid
inspector hassles. I think the reason I have had almost no off-grid customer
battery problems is because (1) I educate customers about batteries and
battery care, (2) tell customers to buy at least 3 days of autonomy at 50%
depth of discharge no matter where they are located, (3) tell them that
equalization every 2 to 3 months is essential and (4) that PV systems will
not equalize their batteries in late Fall, Winter and early Spring.

Two good qualifying questions to ask potential battery buyers are "How often
do you change your vehicle oil and check your tire pressure?" and "How long
do your vehicles last?" If they make their vehicles last over 10 years, then
they likely understand the importance of regular maintenance and have the
discipline to make even Sam's club golf cart batteries last 6 to 8 years.

Joel Davidson

(PS - Is it just me or is anyone else holiday parties fooded-out? I'm not
complaining, just full. It is good to see PV friends and family prospering.)

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Doug Pratt" <dmpratt at sbcglobal.net>
To: <RE-wrenches at topica.com>
Sent: Saturday, December 25, 2004 1:18 PM
Subject: RE: battery shoot-off [RE-wrenches]




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Marco, my experience in catalog retail is bit different than most of the
Wrenches, but perhaps broader. I talk with a LOT of folks every fall about
batteries, probably because we're easy to reach with our 800 numbers, and I
don't mind helping them diagnose problems long distance. I almost always
advise folks to shop locally if at all possible to avoid shipping costs.

We've been using MK Batteries as a distributor for almost 10 years.
http://www.mkbattery.com/ They distribute US Battery brand for the golf-cart
types, and Deka brand for the std. L16 types. We've never offered the L16H
batteries (whew...ducked that bullet by sheer luck). MK has regional
warehouses all over the country that reduce shipping costs (but not in HI),
offer free shipping for over 10, and have been more supportive than I ever
imagined or hoped for.

The Deka L16s have been problem-free with most folks getting about 5 to 8
years of service...with one notable exception. About 3 years ago apparently
a batch of defective ones got out that started failing after a year or two.
I dealt with three customers who had multiple failed cells on a hydrometer
test. In every case, even though they were well beyond the factory warranty,
MK replaced and shipped an entire new battery pack for the customer at no
charge. Sure gotta love that kinda beyond the call of duty service!

On the L16H cells, I've talked with several folks who are suffering failing
cells at around four years, and are pretty bummed about it. I talked to a
guy last month who'd just bought his second set because his dealer still
thinks they're the best choice. So not everyone has gotten the news that
thinner plates are a poor choice for deep cycled batteries.

All the above pertains to off-grid systems that get cycled regularly. If
you're dealing with emergency backup systems, specify sealed cells. Wet
cells won't last, and won't perform when you need them in emergency
backup...even if a miracle happens and they're watered regularly.

Is my former boss Doug Bath still working with you? Say cheers of the season
for me!

Cheers,
Doug Pratt


-----Original Message-----
From: Marco Mangelsdorf [mailto:marco at pvthawaii.com]
Sent: Saturday, December 25, 2004 9:04 AM
To: RE-wrenches at topica.com
Subject: battery shoot-off [RE-wrenches]


Now, I know there's been discussion before on folks' battery of choice, and
I'd

like to take it to a new level.  I'm asking for three things from the
brethren

(and the heretofore small numbers of sisteren): 1) among the these three

choices--Trojan L16H (395AH), Surrette S530 (400AH) and Deka L16 equivalent

(370AH)--which is your battery of choice for off-grid residential? 2) care
to

share a horror story or two of a battery bank failing miserably due to the

battery failing? and, 3) your warranty experience with the manufacturerer
when

you needed support and/or replacement of the batteries.



I was going to go with a large order of Surrette S530s until I recently
heard of

a rather bad experience with 'em.  While the 7-year warranty sounds
soothing,

apparently, if you have a problem, you gotta send 'em back to oh-Canada with

anyone but Surrette paying to get 'em back there...Yuck...



tankie in advance,

marco

ProVision Technologies

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