MX 60 for wind [RE-wrenches]

Tue Aug 3 10:39:25 PDT 2004

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Hi Matt,

I have located a bridge rectifier and we are 
discussing what caps to use.  So basically I'm 
looking at diversion control because we would 
dump the bridge rectified 48 V into the batteries 
directly.   When I had the EZwire center we never 
used the controller anyway, just the rectifier 
and then had an Enermaxer do the rest.  That's 
what I 'm trying to accomplish again.

Who's Eltec?

Thanks Matt,

Jeff

>
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>Jeff,
>
>I forwarded your diversion controller info to Eoltec for comments. Their
>first question was "where is the rectification taking place?". What good is
>a controller for a three phase AC alternator without a rectifier, or are we
>missing something.
>
>Matt T
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Jeff Clearwater [mailto:clrwater at earthlink.net]
>Sent: Monday, August 02, 2004 1:20 PM
>To: RE-wrenches at topica.com
>Subject: RE: MX 60 for wind [RE-wrenches]
>
>
>
>
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>Hi Wrenches,
>
>In my search for diversion controls for
>wind/solar systems (to replace the EZwire center
>for a 175 with a better alternative)  I came
>across this at
>http://www.flexcharge.com/flexcharge_usa/charge_method/flexcharge_charge_met
>hod.htm
>
>Anyone have experience with flexcharge contollers?  They claim the
>following.
>
>"There has been allot of discussion over which
>charge process is better, PWM, or this method.
>To add fuel to the fire, each company making
>"ON-OFF" controllers has chosen different
>voltages to set the disconnect and reconnect
>points.  We have seen controllers using a version
>of this method where the reconnect voltage on a
>12V system was set at 12.6V @ 70°F.  On this
>system the batteries would never see more than
>80% charge, and likely much less.  The PWM type
>controllers will obviously regulate the charging
>your batteries, and with proper temperature
>compensation, heat sinks, and the correct
>Bulk-Regulate-Float (3 stage) algorithm will do a
>pretty good job of it, but why settle when you
>can get so much more in a charge regulator.
>Instead of three stages with PWM you get an
>infinitely variable charge process which will
>supply the battery with exactly what it needs and
>only when it needs it.  You get less plate
>saturation gassing, non destructive equalization
>and Zero EMI as well.  "
>
>Is this just an attempt to have an on-off
>controller look good - an attempt to cover up the
>basic limitation of on-off controllers?
>Ironically they claim it to be an "infinitely
>variable charge process?   - doesn't full current
>pulsing cause plate weakening?  They don't say
>how long those pulses are.  Are we talking
>miliseconds or seconds or minutes?
>
>I guess I'm revealing my lack of sophisticated
>electronics knowledge here, but when a PWM charge
>control is used in a diversion mode, does the
>current flow through the controller or is the
>controller just acting as a fast switching driver
>for a contactor or solid state FET?  Can
>contactor's handle high speed switching without
>burning out?  In which case you use a FET, but
>why can't the FET's in the conroller be used?  Is
>that what a C40 is doing in diversion mode?
>Isn't that what an Enermaxer was?
>
>When Chris F says the MX60 in conjuction with a
>solid state relay can act as a diversion charger
>is it using a PWM routine and/or MTTP 3 stage
>charging routine?  Or is it simply a voltage
>sense for an on-off device with a fixed
>hysteresis?
>
>Any clarity here would be appreciated.
>
>Thanks!
>
>Jeff
>
>
>>------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>Jeff Clearwater, Village Power Design wrote:
>>>   But I remember a conversation with Chris F. at EO
>>>   a few years back where it seemed like the MX60
>>>   could be set up in a diversion mode.  I also
>>>   have 35 amps of PV to regulate too however.  I
>>>   could put the PVs on a MX60 and then the wind
>>>   would be covered
>>
>>The MX60 can be used to provide control of a diversion load - either AC
>>or DC loads can controlled.  You need to add the diversion control
>>device - either a normal relay or (preferably) a solid state relay.
>>The MX60 provides a 12vdc output signal to power the relay's coil - so
>>you don't need anything other than a typical 12 vdc coil type relay
>>even if the system is 24 or 48 vdc nominal.
>>
>>Solid state type relays can be switched much faster than mechanical
>>relays - so the "smoothness" of the diversion control is better (i.e.
>>the power is PWM'd). When using solid state relays you need to set the
>>on/off time delays  in the MX60's diversion system setpoints to zero.
>>Solid state relays can be ordered for either AC or DC loads and need to
>>be mounted on a heatsink.  I usually suggest the Eurotherm /
>>continental brand of solid state relays -
>>http://www.ciicontrols.com/products/svdd.htm - which will handle up to
>>100 vdc and 40 amps per device (you can have more than one controlled
>>by a MX60 for larger systems).
>>
>>The OutBack FX inverter can also provide a diversion output control
>>signal (it also is a 12vdc signal).  It also has an AC diversion mode
>>setting in which the diversion load is turned off if the inverter gets
>>too hot or hits its overload limits.  This was suggested by Bob-O of
>>Electron Connection as he was using the FX to dump hydro output to his
>>electric water heater and had an issue when the well pump would start,
>>causing the inverter to current limit and flicker the output
>>momentarily.  With the new AC diversion mode,  the dump load would be
>>turned off instantly when the motor started - eliminating the flicker.
>>
>>
>>Christopher Freitas
>>OutBack Power Systems, Inc.
>>cfreitas @ outbackpower.com
>>www.outbackpower.com
>>Arlington WA USA
>>Tel 360 435 6030
>>
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>
>
>--
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>Jeff Clearwater
>Village Power Design Associates
>Sustainable Energy & Water Solutions for Home & Village
>http://www.villagepower.com gosolar at villagepower.com
>
>877-SOLARVillage
>425 Nimrod St.
>Nevada City, CA 95959 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~`~
>--
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--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Jeff Clearwater
Village Power Design Associates
Sustainable Energy & Water Solutions for Home & Village
http://www.villagepower.com
gosolar at villagepower.com

877-SOLARVillage
425 Nimrod St.
Nevada City, CA 95959
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~`~

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