Installation details [RE-wrenches]

Mon Nov 25 20:39:31 PST 2002

Yes, that's the problem, as I noted. We need to NOT become vigilantes. But
are we better with folks who aren't installers policing us? Many trades and
professions self-regulate. Doctors and lawyers for example. (Maybe those are
bad examples? I never wanted to be a doctor, and well, lawyers...)

I know that the building inspectors for large commercial projects in
Chicago, unfortunately, rarely knew what they were doing. They had memorized
the code book (much of which dated from the early 20's and 30's in Chicago)
and applied it without question. It did not (and to this day does not) find
or prevent or correct poor design or installation for much of the
construction trades.

Most cities are better than this, but not greatly. There are some great code
folks out there, I've worked with some, but they stand out as the exception,
not the rule. For most, having them review and approve of work is fine, so
long as all the rules are completely set out in simple language (NEC 690 is
way too complex for many) and all installations fit into the neat little box
that is allowed.

These are my experiences that I'm transferring from medium and very large
construction projects over to the PV field. Maybe the transfer is not
correct, but I think it is.

Jeff

-----Original Message-----
From: matthew tritt [mailto:solarone at charter.net]
Sent: Monday, November 25, 2002 9:44 PM
To: RE-wrenches at topica.com
Subject: Re: Installation details [RE-wrenches]

Jeff,

Vigilantes more often than not hung innocent people. Self-policing sounds
pretty Draconian to me; as I remember, law enforcement people exist to
prevent mis-guided or revenge-motivated retribution by un-trained and un
qualified people. Do you feel that you are good enough to go out and judge
another guy's (or gal's) install without knowing all the circumstances
first? If you're that good, great, but I know very few people in any line of
work who would feel comfortable as a peer reviewer.

Matt
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeffery Wolfe, Global Resource Options"
<jeff at globalresourceoptions.com>
To: <RE-wrenches at topica.com>
Sent: Monday, November 25, 2002 5:59 PM
Subject: RE: Installation details [RE-wrenches]

> Bill,
>
> So let's empower some bureaucrats to do it better? I know that some folks
in
> the CA programs really know their stuff, but would the folks they hire to
go
> out and review/approve installs be that good?
>
> Bureaucracy is sometimes the solution, but not always. I think some active
> "self-policing", without becoming a band of vigilantes, might be a better
> solution. It should at least be tried.
>
> I'm with Joel on this one.
>
> Jeff
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bill Brooks [mailto:billb at endecon.com]
> Sent: Monday, November 25, 2002 7:13 PM
> To: RE-wrenches at topica.com
> Cc: Jeff Newmiller; Chuck Whitaker
> Subject: RE: Installation details [RE-wrenches]
>
>
>
> Okay Joel,
>
> How many conversations are you willing to make to fix the crap that is
going
> on now throughout the state? The point is that it has gotten out of hand
and
> the current hands-off approach just ain't workin'. This is simply a case
in
> point that is repeated all too often by well-meaning, incompetent people.
>
> Bill.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Joel Davidson [mailto:joeldavidson at earthlink.net]
> Sent: Monday, November 25, 2002 3:55 PM
> To: RE-wrenches at topica.com
> Subject: Re: Installation details [RE-wrenches]
>
>
> I think it is a good idea for you or Graham or anyone else who is
concerned
> about this installation at the corner of E. Deborah Street and Los Coyotes
> Diagonal in the City of Long Beach (Los Angeles Thomas Map Book page
796-C2)
> in
> LADWP territory (not CEC) talk to the homeowner and LADWP solar program
> personnel before making more CEC restrictions.
>
> Bill Brooks wrote:
>
> > Graham,
> >
> > That is lovely!!! I bet this is on a SunnyBoy inverter as well.
Actually,
> if
> > they laid the panels flat on the roof and got rid of a couple of the
extra
> > panels, this system might actually work.
> >
> > So Joel, do you still hold to your opinion that everything is okay with
> the
> > level of restrictions in the CEC program?
> >
> > Bill.
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Graham Owen [mailto:graham at solarexpert.com]
> > Sent: Monday, November 25, 2002 11:05 AM
> > To: RE-wrenches at topica.com
> > Subject: RE: Installation details [RE-wrenches]
> >
> > Here is a picture of what I would consider a bad example installation.
> > I also had absolutely nothing to do with this job.
> >
> > http://www.solarexpert.com/images12/competition.html
> >
> > By the way, I think a good piece of advice for solar thermal turned PV
> > installer is to not use plumbing tube cutters for cutting EMT.
> >
> > Graham
> >
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