NABCEP Call for comments [RE-wrenches]

Thu Oct 24 19:09:53 PDT 2002

Actually William, it's a longer story about my training and experience, but
I'm not going to recount it here. I'm also trying very hard not to rant,
please excuse me if I do.

My point is that you made a statement that if a wrench is so great, they
should go get a license. Not easy.

I also want to make it clear that we are not breaking any laws. A license is
not required for the projects that we do in the jurisdictions we work in.
Where a project does require an electrician, we usually have the owner hire
one separately, and the install usually costs a lot more because the
electrician almost always asks us to help out since they do not know what
they are doing, so the job gets double teamed at the owner's expense. Who is
winning here?

When we first got into this business, we wanted to simply sell with support,
and not install. We tried to work with local electricians. That's why I now
install. No one wanted to give us the time of day. When an electrician, or
any tradesperson, has 10 GC's screaming at them to get THEIR job done, they
are not going to jump at the chance to do some work for us.

No, we cannot lose our electrician's license, but the criminal and civil
penalties certainly apply, and we're every bit as liable. That's why we
carry contractor's insurance. The customer, at least in our area, does have
an obligation to pay unlicensed contractors, if that's who they contracted
with. Deception is deception, and that's a different story, but that's not
what we are talking about here. (We tell people we are not licensed. We tell
people that we're more than happy to work with their electrician. How many
licensed electricians sell solar and represent that they can put it in,
without having the proper knowledge?)

Our company is legitimate and legal. It is above board, publicly
acknowledged, and I believe, respected in and out of the industry. We work
in the VT industry to make it a true industry, law abiding, and contributing
to the economy. The laws are different here, and in many other areas, than
they are in CA. I don't think that we should set a national standard of
licensure for PV installers just because CA requires a license. If you're
goal in that is to promote the business, you will fail in VT as you will put
all but perhaps 1 (maybe all) full time PV installers out of business.
Please consider the wider effects of these thoughts and actions. Let's grow
an industry that is different and better than those before us, rather than
getting pushed into the same box without true benefit.

Jeff

William Miller wrote:
Jeff:

Let me see if I understand your scenario:  You are trained and licensed as
a mechanical engineer.  You want to change careers and get into electrical
contracting.  Sounds like you need to be trained and licensed to become an
electrical contractor.  It would be the same if you wanted to stop doing
mechanical engineering and become a medical doctor.  You'd be expected to
obey the law in your state and get the proper training and certification.

I could be misunderstanding what you are trying to do.  If you are hiring
licensed electricians to do the electrical work, then you don't need a
license.  And yes, any tradesman needs training on aspects of the trade
they have never experienced before.  They can get that training wherever
they want, I get it from manufacturers, from the NEC, from my buddies on
the wrenches list.

I know many licensed electricians that do shoddy work.  But the consumer
has protection if the work is substandard.  The licensed contractor has
something to lose, the license and criminal and civil penalties.  The
customer has no obligation to pay an unlicensed contractor.  In California,
it is simply the law, you have to have a license.  It is a minimal
requirement, but better than no limits on who can do this at all.

>If you know of another way to get a license, please let me in on it.
>

There may be a provision in California to obtain a license as a manager of
a contracting firm that has provisions to expedite the experience
qualifications.  I believe you are from another state, so your laws may
vary.

>As a side, I'd like to know how many wrenches on this list are licensed? Am
>I in the extreme minority?
>

I have a license.  I worked for years without one.  I wish I'd gotten it
sooner, it has opened doors and legitimized my business.

It is frustrating to find my competitors breaking the law by offering their
services without a license.  It puts the customer's financial incentives
for grid tie installations in jeopardy.  Imagine, putting a $10,000 rebate
on the line to hire an unlicensed contractor (or unwittingly risking a
client's rebate by not being honest about your status).  Should I report
them?  Big question!  I'd appreciate feed back.

William Miller

>Jeff
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: William Miller [mailto:wrmiller at slonet.org]
>Sent: Thursday, October 24, 2002 11:51 AM
>To: RE-wrenches at topica.com
>Subject: RE: NABCEP Call for comments [RE-wrenches]
>
>
>
>Jeff:
>
>If these people you refer to are that great as wrenches, they can get a
>license.  It is the first and most basic consumer protection and it is in
>place now.
>
>William
>
>
>At 02:44 AM 10/24/02 -0800, you wrote:
>>Will,
>>
>>Yes exactly.  But the point is how do we come up with a certification
>>program that proves those skills - both the basic and advanced code
>>wiring knowledge, design, AND takes into account actual PV/RE
>>experience without excluding those of us that obtained our knowledge
>>and experience without going through the normal license route?  If we
>>simply start from the license and add a PV test on top of it, you'll
>>exclude a whole lot of good wrenches.
>>
>>Jeff
>>
>
>__________________________________________________________________
>William Miller
>Miller Power and Communications
>PO Box 50, Santa Margarita, CA 93453
>Voice :805-438-5600		Fax: 805-438-4607	VMail: 805-546-4875
>email: wrmiller at slonet.org
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__________________________________________________________________
William Miller
Miller Power and Communications
PO Box 50, Santa Margarita, CA 93453
Voice :805-438-5600		Fax: 805-438-4607	VMail: 805-546-4875
email: wrmiller at slonet.org
http://millerpowerandcomm.com
License No. C-10-773985
_____________________________________________________________
Compatibility:
Word processor: WP7
Spreadsheet: Quatro Pro 7
CAD: Microstation 95, DXF, Visio 4.1T
_____________________________________________________________
"Every decent man is ashamed of the government he lives under."
                                    H. L. Mencken
__________________________________________________________________

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