NABCEP Call for comments [RE-wrenches]

Thu Oct 24 21:26:13 PDT 2002

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Will, Todd

I think what you are missing the point.  Perhaps I can say it more 
clearly than I think Jeff W has already.

I am all for requiring licenses IF AND ONLY IF my 18-plus years 
experience working on PV and other RE electrical systems of all types 
and sizes both commercial and residential is honored toward that 
license.  (I am presently in the process of seeing exactly how my 
present experience stacks up to the CA requirements)

If instead we say "To do PV you must first get an standard 
Electrician's license by pulling romex at $10/hr for 4 -5 years under 
a jouneyman and then get PV testing training on top of that, then we 
are not honoring the fact that many of us trained and worked for 
years in an industry that didn't have an appropriate license that 
covered our experience and/or have multi-state experience that 
doesn't fit into our present state's criteria for hours toward a 
license.  Many of us were in a position that by the time we realized 
that having a C-10 might be required it was ridiculous to go back and 
work 5 years on residential wiring - the answer instead being that 
our hours on PV/RE should be honored.  Having to hire an electrician 
is not the answer either.

Now I understand that CA and some other states do have some room for 
claiming self-employment hours or owner builder hours.  A rigorous 
test I am all for taking.  Make it thorough and ensure that wrenches 
really know their stuff - design, code, hardware & installation 
technique.  However when it comes time to design that special PV 
license application - if years of in-state certifiable (non-PV) 
apprentice electrician hours are demanded then I fear that many good 
wrenches will find themselves working for the very people they should 
be teaching!  Same thing goes for if you we don't go for a special 
license classification like Todd suggests.

Jeff C.

>At 01:50 PM 10/24/02 -0400, you wrote:
>>
>>William,
>>
>>How do I, a registered professional engineer (mechanical), get an electrical
>>license? I'm not working for an electrician, and our work does not get
>>inspected (inspections not required or even available here). When I hire an
>>electrician to do some work for us, we train them on the PV, then they do
>>the work, on their schedule. (Usually quite a ways out.)
>>
>>>From what I've seen, I need to work full time for a licensed electrician for
>>a number of years to get a license. So I put my company in storage (shut
>>down) for 5 years and do this? Sure I can. Pretty tough on the business
>>though.
>>
>
>Jeff:
>
>Let me see if I understand your scenario:  You are trained and licensed as
>a mechanical engineer.  You want to change careers and get into electrical
>contracting.  Sounds like you need to be trained and licensed to become an
>electrical contractor.  It would be the same if you wanted to stop doing
>mechanical engineering and become a medical doctor.  You'd be expected to
>obey the law in your state and get the proper training and certification.
>
>I could be misunderstanding what you are trying to do.  If you are hiring
>licensed electricians to do the electrical work, then you don't need a
>license.  And yes, any tradesman needs training on aspects of the trade
>they have never experienced before.  They can get that training wherever
>they want, I get it from manufacturers, from the NEC, from my buddies on
>the wrenches list.
>
>I know many licensed electricians that do shoddy work.  But the consumer
>has protection if the work is substandard.  The licensed contractor has
>something to lose, the license and criminal and civil penalties.  The
>customer has no obligation to pay an unlicensed contractor.  In California,
>it is simply the law, you have to have a license.  It is a minimal
>requirement, but better than no limits on who can do this at all.
>
>>If you know of another way to get a license, please let me in on it.
>>
>
>There may be a provision in California to obtain a license as a manager of
>a contracting firm that has provisions to expedite the experience
>qualifications.  I believe you are from another state, so your laws may vary.
>
>>As a side, I'd like to know how many wrenches on this list are licensed? Am
>>I in the extreme minority?
>>
>
>I have a license.  I worked for years without one.  I wish I'd gotten it
>sooner, it has opened doors and legitimized my business.
>
>It is frustrating to find my competitors breaking the law by offering their
>services without a license.  It puts the customer's financial incentives
>for grid tie installations in jeopardy.  Imagine, putting a $10,000 rebate
>on the line to hire an unlicensed contractor (or unwittingly risking a
>client's rebate by not being honest about your status).  Should I report
>them?  Big question!  I'd appreciate feed back.
>
>
>William Miller
>
>>Jeff
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: William Miller [mailto:wrmiller at slonet.org]
>>Sent: Thursday, October 24, 2002 11:51 AM
>>To: RE-wrenches at topica.com
>>Subject: RE: NABCEP Call for comments [RE-wrenches]
>>
>>
>>
>>Jeff:
>>
>>If these people you refer to are that great as wrenches, they can get a
>>license.  It is the first and most basic consumer protection and it is in
>>place now.
>>
>>William
>>
>>
>>At 02:44 AM 10/24/02 -0800, you wrote:
>>>Will,
>>>
>>>Yes exactly.  But the point is how do we come up with a certification
>>>program that proves those skills - both the basic and advanced code
>>>wiring knowledge, design, AND takes into account actual PV/RE
>>>experience without excluding those of us that obtained our knowledge
>>>and experience without going through the normal license route?  If we
>>>simply start from the license and add a PV test on top of it, you'll
>>>exclude a whole lot of good wrenches.
>>>
>>>Jeff
>>>
>>
>>__________________________________________________________________
>>William Miller
>>Miller Power and Communications
>>PO Box 50, Santa Margarita, CA 93453
>>Voice :805-438-5600		Fax: 805-438-4607	VMail: 805-546-4875
>>email: wrmiller at slonet.org
>>http://millerpowerandcomm.com
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>>"Every decent man is ashamed of the government he lives under."
>>                                     H. L. Mencken
>>__________________________________________________________________
>>
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>>
>>
>
>__________________________________________________________________
>William Miller
>Miller Power and Communications
>PO Box 50, Santa Margarita, CA 93453
>Voice :805-438-5600		Fax: 805-438-4607	VMail: 805-546-4875
>email: wrmiller at slonet.org
>http://millerpowerandcomm.com
>License No. C-10-773985
>_____________________________________________________________
>Compatibility:
>Word processor: WP7
>Spreadsheet: Quatro Pro 7
>CAD: Microstation 95, DXF, Visio 4.1T
>_____________________________________________________________
>"Every decent man is ashamed of the government he lives under."
>                                     H. L. Mencken
>__________________________________________________________________
>
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>To send a message: RE-wrenches at topica.com
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>
>Hosted by Home Power magazine
>
>Moderator: michael.welch at homepower.com
>

-- 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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Ecovillage Design Associates - Whole Systems Design
Community and Village Scale Renewable Energy & Water Systems

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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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