Safety at 600v [RE-wrenches]

Bill Brooks billb at endecon.com
Fri May 24 08:14:22 PDT 2002


Doug,

Personal or company attacks aside, I think it is safe to say that the level
of documentation provided by many system package providers is inadequate to
address the safety issues involved.

Siting "overwhelming success" seems a bit premature given the fact that very
few high voltage systems have been sold mail order and not much first-hand
feedback has been gathered from those installations. The "overwhelming list
of failures" in the field for all types of systems causes me to be very
quiet about claiming victory for how things are getting better.

It is satisfying to see people do things right as a result of good training
and conscienciousness, but there are still far too many things going wrong.
That is why a voluntary installer certification process is so important.
That way you, or any other selling dealer can sell a system and tell people
to find a certified PV installer.

Bill.


-----Original Message-----
From: douglas bath [mailto:douglas.bath at realgoods.com]
Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2002 10:53 AM
To: RE-wrenches at topica.com
Subject: RE: Safety at 600v [RE-wrenches]


As a technical staff member of a big West Coast mail order solar catalog, I
too share the concern for the safety of every one of my clients. This
includes the discussion of the dangers of high voltage DC and the
recommendation that systems be installed by qualified humans.

We have successfully advised literally thousands of clients who have
installed energy systems of all sizes all over the world, and a lot of these
were done by people who might be considered "unqualified", and yet the
overwhelming success of these people may prove that the necessity and value
of "qualified installers" is perhaps (dare I say) over-rated. Fortunately,
the State of California gives the benefit of the doubt to the
owner-installer, as I would hope others would.

Further, I would hope that most of us have better things to do than to
partake of specious personation.

Best regards,

Douglas B. Bath,
Senior Technical Advisor
Gaiam- Real Goods & Jade Mountain
800-919-2400 x6903 voice
303-222-8700 fax
http://www.realgoods.com
Building a Sustainable World Since 1978




-----Original Message-----
From: Phil Undercuffler, Positive Energy
[mailto:phil at positiveenergysolar.com]
Sent: Wednesday, May 22, 2002 4:10 PM
To: RE-wrenches at topica.com
Subject: Re: Safety at 600v [RE-wrenches]


----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Brooks" <billb at endecon.com>

> I know most of the wrenches design their own systems, but how do people
feel
> about the newbees designing systems? How about wrenches with 600 Volts--we
> talked about this over a year ago on the list and there was a lot of
> well-deserved apprehension--I'm still worried.


Forget about wrenches--how about Joe Handyman?  Last month I got the latest
catalog from the big West coast mail order solar catalog company that will
remain nameless.  Prominently featured on the back page was Sunnyboy solar
packages, both small and large.  Just for kicks n grins, I called up & made
dumb (insert easy pot-shot here).  The helpful person on the other end of
the line assured me that anyone with handyman skills could install the
entire system!  He was still willing to take my credit card number after I
balked at pulling a permit or hiring an electrician, or even about notifying
my utility company, (although he mentioned that they wouldn't like that).
To his credit, he did suggest that I hire someone to look at my work,
although I'm sure that doesn't really meet the intent of the law.  I wiggled
off the hook by protesting "what do you mean it doesn't work on 12 volts?
Gee, I don't know if I feel safe working at linesman voltages!"

To take this a little further, I was tapped to lead a training for my fire
department regarding solar power systems.  A common part of fighting a
structure fire is cutting a large hole in the roof directly over the fire.
The thought of being on the unhappy end of an 18" gas-powered roof saw that
accidentally cuts through an array conductor operating at 600VDC made even
the newest recruit blanche.  I know that we can tarp the array and be safe,
I THINK that smashing out a couple of modules will break the string and make
it safe, but I can also see the day when firefighters see the array on the
roof, the red box on the wall, put two and two together and unless there is
someone trapped inside they stand back and protect the neighbor's house.

Don't get me wrong, I LIKE the Sunnyboy.  I can't wait to get my hands on a
Sunny Island.  I think SMA has a great product line, support, and design
philosophy.  I'm just really concerned about what happens when things don't
go right; in fact what happens when things go horribly wrong.

Enjoy the Sun!

Phil Undercuffler
Positive Energy

"The most beautiful experience we can have is the mysterious....
the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art
and true science"  --Albert Einstein

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