the insanity of grounding DC side (was Re: DC-GFP/2 protection [RE-wrench

[Lawrence Elliott]

----- Original Message -----
From: "Hugh Piggott" <hugh.piggott at enterprise.net>
To: <RE-wrenches at topica.com>
Sent: Sunday, August 25, 2002 2:09 PM
Subject: Re: the insanity of grounding DC side (was Re: DC-GFP/2
protection [RE-wrench


> At 11:37 am -0700 24/8/02, Todd Cory, Mt. Shasta Energy Services
wrote:
> >..... all metal chassis etc. need to be grounded so there is no
potential
> >between that and ground. It does not mean that you should ground one
of the 2
> >conductors on the DC side.... The potential only is between the 2
conductors
> >and thus it is more safe.
> >
> >The reason why we have a grounded (bonded) conductor (I.E. the white
neutral
> >wire) system here in the USA, is to justify the use of a third
> >ground wire which
> >benefits the wire manufacturers and unions that install them.
>
> How can you ground your equipment without that ground wire?  That
> wire is to prevent any piece of metal around the system from getting
> up to a different potential from any other piece of metal, or from
> ground potential.  It's a good idea.  Prevents shocks.
>
> >  Grounding one of
> >the DC conductors does absolutely nothing to make systems any safer
and IMO
> >makes them much less safe.

Todd.
I think what you are proposing places you in a similar and somewhat
uneviable position to what it would be like to be the little boy in the
old story of "The King has not clothes".
I'm sure we are all familiar with the funny story about the "sycophants"
who sourounded the king and insisted that the king was fully clothed
when in fact he was "buck naked with his winky hanging out "   (Since
Hugh is a Scottsman and a fine one at that I feel conpelled to use a
slang he feels familiar with)
BTW Hugh I am a fine upstanding Elliott who probably had ancestors who
were Reevers patrolling southern Scotland  and required a small
"donation" each time you and the highlanders ventured into the "great
and as yet  un-united kingdom" ;-)


So when I say 'Yee is full of dung when discussing grounding"  (although
I would never challenge you on wind stuff) do not take it as an offense
but rather an invitation to "enlightenment"


The little boy felt he did not have to go along with all the rest since
he had not been "conditioned".

Here is some absolute truth for those who are fortunately still a little
kid at heart.(Translation = open to debate)
If the majority of Europe feels it is unnecessary to ground a conductor
( yes Todd I also feel it is an invitation to electric shock that
originally did not exist) then we must assume two things.
One is that all the engineers in Europe are sadistic since they like to
see fellow citizens "fried" by all that nasty current .
Secondly they must be technically incompetent.
Just look at electric shock statistics to dispell the first myth and
secondly I have yet to see a European auto manufacturer make such a
monstrosity as Ford and their Expedition.
Or excuse me was that  Exposition in  (I Expose my lack of any IQ above
single digits)
So let us drop the second assumption.

Ground the equipment and do your damdest to bleed off potential
difference due to lightning  and use SOV's ??????????????
You bet your sweet bippy!

But after many days or hours of research I think I have found the "holly
grail" of why the USA grounds its conductors. That is beside the obvious
one of additional revenue and more copper mines.
Seems that when good old Thomas A Edison ( Hugh! Just as an aside
Thomas's mothers maiden name was Elliott) first installed electric
service in New York city at the Vanderbilt mansion on the upper west
side it was discovered that the young "lassies" were taking more and
more frequent walks in front of the mansion when it had just rained.
With 80 vdc of current flowing through  leaky rubber and cambric
insulated wires buried in the wet ground delivering great stimulus, what
need was there for laddies.
Get my drift?
Grounding one of the conductors solved this problem. But it also  left
all the lassies still asking laddies "and what is your sign sweety" and
made the Montana town of Anaconda the same smelly mess but it was but
just that much richer?

Please,please please remember that the "ground" is a part of this series
circuit.
When I lived in Pennsylvania the clay ground offered very little
resistance.
In Oregon?
Come on guys.
If I pee each day on my ground rod and dump salt each hour I  still have
at least several kilo ohms to ground.
Get real please


 Here is a question for all those who still feel the king has no reason
for embarassment.

If the current in any series circuit is equal in all parts of the
circuit why would the NEC require two overcurrent devices in a circuit
that is ungrounded and less than 50 vdc.
Answer is " all principles of physics and common sense must and shall
from this day forth follow only the principles of economics as put forth
by Adam Smith"
Of course he was an Englishman!
Must we say more?


Nuff said

The proud Scottsman
Larry Elliott

P.S.
Words of wisdom from another fine ,fine  Scottsman  by the name of
Thomas Jefferson


" A people cannot be both ignorant as well as free"


Michael please take note of this quote when yee votes.

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