third Party Installations [RE-wrenches]
Jason Fisher, Aurora Energy
aurora at toad.net
Wed Nov 7 08:57:26 PST 2001
Rhetorical question but:
What does the group think of distributors that also operate .coms that
sell directly to homeowners at dealer prices?
An old, successful distributor in my area does this under two different
company names: one local, one online. Once I found out about it, I
stopped buying from them. I wonder if others think that companies like
this should be held accountable?
Jason Fisher
Aurora Energy
Annapolis, Maryland
-----Original Message-----
From: Joel Davidson [mailto:joeldavidson at earthlink.net]
Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2001 1:42 PM
To: RE-wrenches at topica.com
Subject: Re: third Party Installations [RE-wrenches]
1. You could buy equipment from Mr. Solar and resell to your customer.
Your overall
profit margin will be smaller, but it may be better than losing the sale
or losing
the installation.
2. Buy the equipment from your regular supplier or another supplier who
listens to
your situation and gives you lower prices so you can compete. A wise
supplier will
do what he can to can keep your business and help you grow your business
and his
business through your sales efforts.
3. Large volume is just a lot of small volume. A customer who buys 1,000
solar
modules per year is an 84 module/month customer. A wise supplier knows
that
scheduling and shipping 84 modules/month is better for both the supplier
and the
customer. Your supplier knows that you buy X-number of modules per year.
Ask for a
volume discount on the annual amount based on your continued business.
4. It is not bad for the industry to sell things at lower prices to
volume
customers.
5. The "do-it-yourselfer" is your competitor too. But perhaps you can
win their
business by guaranteeing higher overall savings by providing a
comprehensive energy
audit, energy conservation and efficiency advice that results in a
smaller PV
system. Perhaps you can convince customers that they will save time and
money if
they hire you to install their system right the first time.
6. Don't waste your time with owner-installers. Ask prospects up-front,
"Do you
want to hire me to install their system or do you plan on installing it
yourself?"
If you think that they are a do-it-yourselfer, tell them politely, "From
what you
are saying, it sounds like you want to install your own PV system. Our
company does
not sell parts to do-it-yourselfers. If you would like us to to install
your PV
system, we do have to charge for our time to come to your home or
business and do a
site analysis and work up a system design. Our fee is (range in L.A. is
$100 to
$300 for site visits up to 1 hour travel time). If you decide to hire us
to install
your system, we will credit the full price of our site analysis and
system design
work toward the installed price. Would you like to schedule a site visit
today?"
(offer and trial close)
7. Learn how to weed out the suspects from the prospects and qualify
your
prospects. Your sales close rate will increase. You will spend less time
with
non-customers. You will have more time for yourself and your loved ones.
Drake Chamberlin - Electrical Energy wrote:
> Hi Joel,
>
> Mr. Solar can often sell direct to the customer at about the same
price as
> we pay. It apparently takes a large volume purchaser to buy at really
good
> prices.
>
> In my opinion, this is bad for the industry. Many people do buy
equipment
> at low cost and connect them to dwellings that have pretty standard
> electrical demands. Therefore, systems go in that "prove," once
again,
> that solar doesn't work.
>
> Yet for 20% more on their up front costs, they could have a system
that
> would really do something. Or, in other cases, they might find that
they
> don't really need all the equipment they are buying (with the proper
set
> up) and could spend the same amount.
>
> Drake
>
> At 07:54 AM 11/06/2001 -0800, you wrote:
> >The smart plumber tells his customer, "Sure, I can sell you the Home
Depot
> >water
> >heater at the same price as Home Depot." Then he either buys the
heater at
> >Home Depot
> >or buys it at a discount from another supplier or tells his customer
why
> >he should
> >buy the brand heater that he sells. Plumbers, electricians, PV
installers,
> >etc. are
> >competing with Home Depot and other parts suppliers. So learn how to
> >compete. Make
> >your equipment prices competitive. Learn price differentiation.
Determine your
> >materials, labor and G&A prices that you need to meet your profit
goals.
> >You can not
> >manage your competition, but you can take manage your own business
and your
> >customers.
> >
> >
> >
> >jay peltz wrote:
> >
> > > HI Drake,
> > >
> > > Well said. I keep coming back to our other trades, such as
electrical or
> > > plumbing.
> > >
> > > How many plumbers will install a hot water heater, that you don't
buy
> > from them,
> > > and how many would warranty it? yea right,
> > >
> > > How many electricans would install the same, equipment bought
elsewhere?
> > >
> > > Solar has gotten the rap as being something you can do yourself,
and so
> > it is.
> > > But when you cross that line of oops I can't do it myself that it
gets
> > very
> > > complicated. Much of this problem comes from web sellers. As I
used
> > to be one
> > > for AEE and then Applied power, the hardest part of my job was to
> > figure the
> > > design parameters. The system was easy, but the hows and whys and
not
> > being able
> > > to see and having to trust the customer, next to impossible.
> > >
> > > Our industry is no different. We have good installers, and poor
> > ones. Ones who
> > > understand design, others who only understand profit. No way to
make
> > it perfect,
> > > its just life. But hay our time is now!!
> > >
> > > jay
> > >
> > > peltz power
> > >
> > > Drake Chamberlin - Electrical Energy wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hi Wrenches,
> > > >
> > > > Most of my RE work is with systems that are either off grid, or
> > designed to
> > > > supply specified loads in the event power outages. To function
> > adequately,
> > > > these systems require careful planning. Some of my concerns
might not
> > > > apply to systems that are strictly gird intertie.
> > > >
> > > > I am willing to install equipment purchased from other sources
with
> > > > certain understandings. One is that, in the event of equipment
> > failure, I
> > > > will be paid my regular rate to service the installation, unless
the
> > > > problem is due to my error.
> > > >
> > > > A big issue is, that I must be paid for designing the system.
Without
> > > > commission, I can't afford to provide "free" deign work. The
bargain
> > > > hound may find that much of his savings are eaten up by having
to pay for
> > > > design time.
> > > >
> > > > A lot of existing systems I've seen look fine. A power panel
hanging
> > on a
> > > > wall, and a nice looking solar array can look pretty impressive.
The
> > only
> > > > problem is that many of these systems don't accomplish much.
The
> > > > electrical loads and use patterns of the premise may squander
the
> > > > relatively few watts available from the PV system.
> > > >
> > > > Yet, with a well thought out system, a dwelling really can run
on solar
> > > > electricity. It may require not using a forced air furnace, but
> > > > circulating DC pumped hot water from a gas boiler, that uses
either a
> > pilot
> > > > light or an efficient AC control box, that is designed to shut
off
> > when not
> > > > needed. This may require working with a plumber who needs to be
> > > > educated. This may lead to searches for appropriate boilers,
hot water
> > > > tanks, pumps, tubing and other related equipment. It may be
necessary to
> > > > make certain, that elements of systems that we are not
installing,
> > get set
> > > > up properly.
> > > >
> > > > A functional system may require phantom loads be eliminated by
use of DC
> > > > powered answering machines, computers, cell phones, etc.
Voltages may
> > need
> > > > to be adjusted by using battery bank equalizers or DC to DC
voltage
> > > > converters.
> > > >
> > > > All proposed appliances need to be cleared for the system.
Certain loads
> > > > may need to be shed on low battery conditions. Water pumping
and
> > > > pressurizing strategies need to be evolved. Wires need to be
sized for
> > > > amperage and voltage drop. Code compliant physical layouts need
to be
> > > > developed, often with difficult space limitations. Appropriate
and
> > > > properly listed equipment needs to be specified and located for
all
> > > > subsystems. It is truly necessary to wholisticly design the
entire
> > system,
> > > > loads as well as generation.
> > > >
> > > > Every job is different. Making an off grid home truly function
> > involves a
> > > > lot more than hanging an inverter on a wall and wiring batteries
&
> > modules
> > > > together. Two systems may look a lot a like to the untrained
eye,
> > but one
> > > > may serve 95% of the electrical needs of a premise and the other
> > 15%. The
> > > > magic is in the subtle detail. In this line of work, details
really do
> > > > matter.
> > > >
> > > > I don't care too much how I get reimbursed for my time. It is
probably a
> > > > better deal for the customer to pay the higher price for the
> > equipment, and
> > > > get on-going support for the system, plus get the "free" design
> > work. But
> > > > it is sometimes hard to get customers to understand that there
is more to
> > > > this business than assembling a Lego set. That can be the
biggest
> > > > challenge in a project. But careful design work is essential to
> > > > demonstrate the true potential of PV. Few can afford to supply
it
> > for free.
> > > >
> > > > Peace,
> > > >
> > > > Drake
> > > >
> > > > - - - -
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> > > >
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