*&^% Subsidies (was Proposed Changes to C.E.C. rebates in California) [RE-w

Sat May 12 11:59:20 PDT 2001

Joel,

You have some good points, but Allan's accounts can't
be ignored.  I recently had to reroute some conduit &
wiring of an EV charger installed by a local
contractor, in order to make way for our installation.
 Upon opening one of their J-boxes I found a wire nut
melted  apart and wires with their insulation melting
away.  The appearance of their conduit run and
installation as a whole was shoddy.  

I don't want to invite the quick & dirty fly by
nighters to come give our industry a bad rep.  It's
allready happened once with the solar hot water
industry.
--- "Allan Sindelar, Positive Energy, Inc."
<allan at positiveenergysolar.com> wrote:
> > I welcome the new people flooding the industry.
> Evolution works.
> 
> Warning: Rant: ON:
> Joel,
>     On this one I think you're way off the mark. In
> New Mexico we see poorly
> installed systems on a regular basis. There's
> nothing we can do to stop bad
> installers, whether they're licensed or not. Most
> people shop price. Thank
> God our reputation for quality is growing, as we
> refuse to waste our time
> competing on price. We're getting more and more who
> appreciate our quality.
> We're way more expensive than some "installers"
> around here anyway.
> 
>     This is a technical field being sold to the
> average Joe Sixpak who
> hasn't a clue how to evaluate the installation. I
> don't like being the
> technician called in two years later on a system
> that can't keep up with
> what was promised, and have to find delicate ways of
> saying to the owner
> that he was sold an expensive bill of goods because
> of third-rate
> installation..."Oh, and by the way, I'll spend the
> time with you to analyze
> your phantom loads, multiwire branch circuits,
> multiple code violations,
> etc., at $60/hour including travel time, but I won't
> correct them for you
> unless we completely rebuild your system to our
> standards and get it
> inspected. It'll cost about $4-5K for us to do that,
> top-of-the-head.
> Otherwise, sir, we won't take on the liability of
> touching your system"...
> 
>     Joel, this isn't theoretical. I'm describing a
> situation that really
> happened 3 weeks ago, a referral to a friend of one
> of our clients. And I
> was returning from a job we had just rebuilt, to the
> tune of $15K including
> new Surrettes, inverter and voltage upgrade to 24V,
> for another client of
> the same "installer" (I'm close to naming names
> here--it's a well-known Taos
> dealer).
> 
>     Locally we've got a licensed electrical
> contractor who's been doing PV
> around here for years who we rant about for shoddy
> and unsafe work. We have
> twice corrected parallel ground paths on AC
> generators he's wired in. We see
> the same consistent mistakes when we see his work on
> service calls. He's
> very threatened by us, but what do we do? We correct
> what we can, turn some
> of these calls down, try to stay above it, but no
> customer wants to pay
> twice for work, especially when they didn't know
> that what they had was
> unsafe or just didn't work like it could.
> 
> >Bad installations by licensed or unlicensed
> contractors
> > that are either bootlegged or permitted, can be
> indentified and dealt with
> in
> > various ways.
>  I'd like to hear your ideas how this can be done.
> 
>     California looks like a nightmare waiting to
> happen, especially if
> subsidies start bringing every fast-buck solar
> salesman in because it's
> easier than used cars or mutual funds. There are
> nowhere near enough
> skilled, experienced installers to handle the demand
> with daily rolling
> blackouts. You will see a lot of poor work or I owe
> you a bunch of brews.
> 
>     Answers: I dunno. Independent, third-party
> evaluation of each system
> before rebates, without industry kickbacks.
> Subsidies that increase in
> percentage each year, then diminish to 0 or 10 or
> 15%, so no upheavals like
> the last round. IPP or somebody's certification.
> Some sort of structure to
> review poor work so quick buckers are sent packing.
> 
>     And manufacturers can design grid-tie systems
> for installers, but not
> standalone systems.
> 
> Rant: OFF
> 
> Allan at Positive Energy
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Joel Davidson" <joeldavidson at earthlink.net>
> To: <RE-wrenches at topica.com>
> Sent: Friday, May 11, 2001 12:03 PM
> Subject: Re: Proposed Changes to C.E.C. rebates in
> California [RE-wrenches]
> 
> 
> > Of course, we are concerned about quality and
> sleeze bags. Our concern is
> a
> > continuing thread in almost all conversations
> among PV professionals. One
> reason
> > solar thermal got out of hand is poor policing. I
> believe that when a
> > responsible person sees bad design, installation,
> equipment, business
> practices,
> > then it is his or her responsibility to do
> something to improve the
> situation.
> > That's why I always try to convert general
> grumblings into specifics. So
> > specifically,
> > 1. Bad design is often the result of module and
> inverter manufacturers who
> > refuse to take responsibility and provide good
> designs for their products.
> Not
> > all manufacturers are guilty. For example, Siemens
> recently designed their
> > Earthsafe system.
> > 2. Installations will improve when installers
> collaborate. Some people may
> > believe that installation problems are endemic and
> seek blanket solutions.
> I do
> > not like one-size-fits-all so-called solutions. I
> prefer to deal with
> problems
> > on a case by case basis.
> > 3. If anyone knows of any equipment with real
> problems, please share this
> > information.
> >
> 
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