*&^% Subsidies (was Proposed Changes to C.E.C. rebates in California) [RE

Joel Davidson joeldavidson at earthlink.net
Sat May 12 18:35:11 PDT 2001


I am concerned about bad work done by paid labor and do-it-yourselfers.
Report dangerous wiring that you discover to your local building
inspection office. If they get enough complaints about someone's work,
they will eventually do something.

Jerry Caldwell wrote:

> Joel,
>
> You have some good points, but Allan's accounts can't
> be ignored.  I recently had to reroute some conduit &
> wiring of an EV charger installed by a local
> contractor, in order to make way for our installation.
>  Upon opening one of their J-boxes I found a wire nut
> melted  apart and wires with their insulation melting
> away.  The appearance of their conduit run and
> installation as a whole was shoddy.
>
> I don't want to invite the quick & dirty fly by
> nighters to come give our industry a bad rep.  It's
> allready happened once with the solar hot water
> industry.
> --- "Allan Sindelar, Positive Energy, Inc."
> <allan at positiveenergysolar.com> wrote:
> > > I welcome the new people flooding the industry.
> > Evolution works.
> >
> > Warning: Rant: ON:
> > Joel,
> >     On this one I think you're way off the mark. In
> > New Mexico we see poorly
> > installed systems on a regular basis. There's
> > nothing we can do to stop bad
> > installers, whether they're licensed or not. Most
> > people shop price. Thank
> > God our reputation for quality is growing, as we
> > refuse to waste our time
> > competing on price. We're getting more and more who
> > appreciate our quality.
> > We're way more expensive than some "installers"
> > around here anyway.
> >
> >     This is a technical field being sold to the
> > average Joe Sixpak who
> > hasn't a clue how to evaluate the installation. I
> > don't like being the
> > technician called in two years later on a system
> > that can't keep up with
> > what was promised, and have to find delicate ways of
> > saying to the owner
> > that he was sold an expensive bill of goods because
> > of third-rate
> > installation..."Oh, and by the way, I'll spend the
> > time with you to analyze
> > your phantom loads, multiwire branch circuits,
> > multiple code violations,
> > etc., at $60/hour including travel time, but I won't
> > correct them for you
> > unless we completely rebuild your system to our
> > standards and get it
> > inspected. It'll cost about $4-5K for us to do that,
> > top-of-the-head.
> > Otherwise, sir, we won't take on the liability of
> > touching your system"...
> >
> >     Joel, this isn't theoretical. I'm describing a
> > situation that really
> > happened 3 weeks ago, a referral to a friend of one
> > of our clients. And I
> > was returning from a job we had just rebuilt, to the
> > tune of $15K including
> > new Surrettes, inverter and voltage upgrade to 24V,
> > for another client of
> > the same "installer" (I'm close to naming names
> > here--it's a well-known Taos
> > dealer).
> >
> >     Locally we've got a licensed electrical
> > contractor who's been doing PV
> > around here for years who we rant about for shoddy
> > and unsafe work. We have
> > twice corrected parallel ground paths on AC
> > generators he's wired in. We see
> > the same consistent mistakes when we see his work on
> > service calls. He's
> > very threatened by us, but what do we do? We correct
> > what we can, turn some
> > of these calls down, try to stay above it, but no
> > customer wants to pay
> > twice for work, especially when they didn't know
> > that what they had was
> > unsafe or just didn't work like it could.
> >
> > >Bad installations by licensed or unlicensed
> > contractors
> > > that are either bootlegged or permitted, can be
> > indentified and dealt with
> > in
> > > various ways.
> >  I'd like to hear your ideas how this can be done.
> >
> >     California looks like a nightmare waiting to
> > happen, especially if
> > subsidies start bringing every fast-buck solar
> > salesman in because it's
> > easier than used cars or mutual funds. There are
> > nowhere near enough
> > skilled, experienced installers to handle the demand
> > with daily rolling
> > blackouts. You will see a lot of poor work or I owe
> > you a bunch of brews.
> >
> >     Answers: I dunno. Independent, third-party
> > evaluation of each system
> > before rebates, without industry kickbacks.
> > Subsidies that increase in
> > percentage each year, then diminish to 0 or 10 or
> > 15%, so no upheavals like
> > the last round. IPP or somebody's certification.
> > Some sort of structure to
> > review poor work so quick buckers are sent packing.
> >
> >     And manufacturers can design grid-tie systems
> > for installers, but not
> > standalone systems.
> >
> > Rant: OFF
> >
> > Allan at Positive Energy
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Joel Davidson" <joeldavidson at earthlink.net>
> > To: <RE-wrenches at topica.com>
> > Sent: Friday, May 11, 2001 12:03 PM
> > Subject: Re: Proposed Changes to C.E.C. rebates in
> > California [RE-wrenches]
> >
> >
> > > Of course, we are concerned about quality and
> > sleeze bags. Our concern is
> > a
> > > continuing thread in almost all conversations
> > among PV professionals. One
> > reason
> > > solar thermal got out of hand is poor policing. I
> > believe that when a
> > > responsible person sees bad design, installation,
> > equipment, business
> > practices,
> > > then it is his or her responsibility to do
> > something to improve the
> > situation.
> > > That's why I always try to convert general
> > grumblings into specifics. So
> > > specifically,
> > > 1. Bad design is often the result of module and
> > inverter manufacturers who
> > > refuse to take responsibility and provide good
> > designs for their products.
> > Not
> > > all manufacturers are guilty. For example, Siemens
> > recently designed their
> > > Earthsafe system.
> > > 2. Installations will improve when installers
> > collaborate. Some people may
> > > believe that installation problems are endemic and
> > seek blanket solutions.
> > I do
> > > not like one-size-fits-all so-called solutions. I
> > prefer to deal with
> > problems
> > > on a case by case basis.
> > > 3. If anyone knows of any equipment with real
> > problems, please share this
> > > information.
> > >
> >
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> >
>
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