becoming an inter-tie system [RE-wrenches]

Sat Mar 3 19:49:30 PST 2001

<x-flowed>Hi Bill,

It would be really great if you could post information on the list 
concerning code writing committees dealing with renewable energy.  If you 
were in a committee meeting, and posted the issues under discussion, that 
would be really excellent.

The reason the code lacks real life input from RE system installers is that 
we are not generally in those meetings.   To attend would be expensive in 
both terms of travel and loss of work.  Yet, the  people who do draft the 
code are paid for their work.

If all Wrenches had the opportunity to hear about the rules as they are 
being formed, some real influence might be possible.   We could hash out 
the ideas on the list, and submit our proposal to the committee.   This 
could be a real opportunity.

Drake

At 11:00 AM 03/03/2001 -0800, you wrote:
>Drake and other wrenches interested in the NEC 690 process. Wrenches are
>more than welcome in the code-making process. I have been involved in the
>technical review committee since it started in 1994. I would be happy to
>notify all wrenches of any meetings through this forum if you would like
>that. I assure you that the interest of the committee is to further the
>proliferation of PV throughout the U.S.
>
>Bill.
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Drake Chamberlin - Electrical Energy
> > [mailto:solar at eagle-access.net]
> > Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2001 10:00 AM
> > To: RE-wrenches at topica.com
> > Subject: RE: becoming an inter-tie system [RE-wrenches]
> >
> >
> > Hi Wrenches,
> >
> >
> >
> > On the array ground fault requirement, I think the best we could hope for
> > at this point is to affect the 2005 code.  The deadline for changing the
> > following code comes on the heals of the new codes.  We would need some
> > sort of unified and organized effort to make any changes.
> >
> > At a minimum, we would need to do some testing.  Could it be done at The
> > Funky Mountain Institute or Backwoods?  If the DC array ground fault
> > protection could be clearly demonstrated to be a useless piece of junk,
> > maybe we could make some headway.  I would love to test this as an RE Lab
> > project, but it would require time and equipment, neither of which I
> > currently have.  If anyone could connect me with a source of potential
> > funding, things could move forward.
> >
> > The situation still lingers that Wrenches have little if any
> > input in code
> > writing.  It all comes from on high.  I am sure we could evolve
> > much better
> > regulations if allowed.
> >
> > Drake
> >
> >
> > At 04:47 PM 03/02/2001 -0800, you wrote:
> > >Bob-O and William,
> > >
> > >Please check the archives of a week or two ago when Jay Peltz, Drake
> > >Chamberlin, and I were discussing this issue in detail. You may
> > not like the
> > >answers, but it will make some good background reading.
> > >
> > >It is unlikely that we will see a change in the 2002 code, but
> > it is worth a
> > >try. I think there needs to be a differentiation for systems
> > below 50 volts
> > >(12 and 24 volt systems--not 48) versus above 50 volts on this
> > issue. There
> > >may also be a differentiation for systems in conduit versus ones
> > using romex
> > >in attics. The trick to making a code change is to have a
> > watertight reason
> > >for changing the requirement. The code making panels do not
> > generally accept
> > >"I don't like it" as reasoning.
> > >
> > >Bill.
> > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: Bob-O Schultze, Electron Connection
> > > > [mailto:econnect at snowcrest.net]
> > > > Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2001 8:14 AM
> > > > To: RE-wrenches at topica.com
> > > > Subject: Re: becoming an inter-tie system [RE-wrenches]
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > William,
> > > > I understand your concern and share it, but I refuse to be blindly
> > > > lead along by the nose. I also refuse to add to the cost of an
> > > > already expensive installation unless it adds a proven reasonable
> > > > safety factor.
> > > > With standard house voltage, GFIs are required only in potentially
> > > > wet areas (bathrooms, kitchens, outside areas, etc, where a greater
> > > > possibility of electrocution exists. Think about it, if GFIs were
> > > > proven to prevent fire, the NEC would require them on EVERY circuit
> > > > of the house. It's just yet another case of the NECs refusal or lack
> > > > of knowledge of the difference between very low voltage and what they
> > > > define as low voltage (<600V) systems. RE is held to a higher
> > > > standard then most of the other technologies. I blame J. Wiles and
> > > > his recycled military/industrial/nuclear cronies at SANDIA for at
> > > > least some of that, ignorance for the rest. Whether Mr. Wiles, etal,
> > > > are acting above their knowledge and experience but in good faith or
> > > > through some other influences is the question, isn't it?
> > > > Bob-O
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >Pals:
> > > > >
> > > > >Could the GFI be required to protect from fire hazard as well as, or
> > > > >instead of, electrocution?  I try not to second guess Code
> > requirements
> > > > >unless I have some pretty substantial knowledge base, and I
> > > > believe talking
> > > > >a client out of a required device could be a liability nightmare.
> > > > >
> > > > >William
> > > >
> > > > - - - - - - -
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> > > >  RE-wrenches at topica.com
> > > >
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> > > >  http://www.topica.com/lists/RE-wrenches/
> > > >
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> > > >
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> > > >
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> > >- - - - - - -
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> > >
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> > >
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> > - - - - - - -
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> >
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> >
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> >
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> >  www.homepower.com
> >
> > For info contact list moderator by email:
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> >
> > ____________________________________________________________
> > T O P I C A  -- Learn More. Surf Less.
> > Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose.
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>
>- - - - - - -
>To send a message:
>  RE-wrenches at topica.com
>
>The archive of previous messages:
>  http://www.topica.com/lists/RE-wrenches/
>
>List rules & etiquette:
>  http://www.mrsharkey.com/wrenches/etiquete.htm
>
>To unsubscribe send a message to:
>  RE-wrenches-unsubscribe at topica.com
>
>To check out the other RE-Wrench participants:
>  www.mrsharkey.com/wrenches/index.html
>
>Hosted by Home Power magazine:
>  www.homepower.com
>
>For info contact list moderator by email:
>  michael.welch at homepower.com
>
>____________________________________________________________
>T O P I C A  -- Learn More. Surf Less.
>Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose.
>http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01

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To send a message:
 RE-wrenches at topica.com

The archive of previous messages: 
 http://www.topica.com/lists/RE-wrenches/

List rules & etiquette:
 http://www.mrsharkey.com/wrenches/etiquete.htm

To unsubscribe send a message to: 
 RE-wrenches-unsubscribe at topica.com

To check out the other RE-Wrench participants:
 www.mrsharkey.com/wrenches/index.html

Hosted by Home Power magazine: 
 www.homepower.com

For info contact list moderator by email:
 michael.welch at homepower.com

____________________________________________________________
T O P I C A  -- Learn More. Surf Less. 
Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose.
http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01

</x-flowed>