[RE-wrenches] Sol-Ark 15k

Jay jay.peltz at gmail.com
Sun May 8 08:57:07 EDT 2022 

Hi Chris,

Can’t you increase the size of the KO’s?

Jay

> On May 7, 2022, at 7:17 PM, Chris Sparadeo via RE-wrenches <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
> 
> 
> Jason,
> 
> I think I agree with your interpretation of the wiring diagram. My hesitation is, with a 1-1/4” KO for AC inputs, only choice seems to be a >24” stub conduit for 2/0 conductores to a fused disconnect. Not a fun pipe to bend…and extra BOS seems like a less than ideal solution. 
> 
> Is this your conclusion as well? 
> 
>> On Sun, Apr 17, 2022 at 10:38 PM Darryl Thayer via RE-wrenches <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>> Yes and no, I think this is a tap, "a tap shall be permitted anywhere along a feeder"  ' as long as it is less than a 10-foot rule or 25-foot rule ending in a listed OCPD with a rating sufficient to handle the maximum overcurrent'.  Service equipment residential is rated for fault currents of up to 10,000 amps withstand.    Refer to 240.4.B and 240.21 (B) (1 & 2) 
>> 
>>> On Sun, Apr 17, 2022 at 10:39 AM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>>> But this isn't a tap. It's a feeder conductor connected to an OCPD. 
>>> 
>>> I guess if you don't have a grid in or generator in or AC Coupled PV, you could just call it an inverter output circuit and it could be sized accordingly. But it would still need to be protected at it's source by an appropriately rated OCPD. Don't get me wrong... I don't think there is a real safety issue here, but I also don't see how the NEC allows the conductor to be sized for anything less than 200A.
>>> 
>>> Jason 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On Sun, Apr 17, 2022, 11:29 AM Darryl Thayer via RE-wrenches <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>>>> The tap rule says you can reduce to 10% of the nominal size for 10 feet and protect at the downstream OCPD or 25% for 25 feet for solar with multiple sources see 705
>>>> 
>>>>> On Sat, Apr 16, 2022 at 9:16 PM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>>>>> That's what I'm thinking. You would need to use a 200A conductor to a separate load out OCPD before downsizing the wire. I guess there are pros and cons, but it seems this is geared toward whole house backup for 200A services. I'm eager to get an opportunity to use it in that scenario. 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Jason
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Sat, Apr 16, 2022, 10:06 PM Chris Sparadeo via RE-wrenches <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>>>>>> Jason,
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Any additional OCPD downstream of the 200A load output breaker could allow for a smaller wire size to be used at these terminals. For example, load output conductors run to a 100A main breaker panel board.  Obviously depending on circumstances, a #4 copper could fit the bill. 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> What I’m not extremely  excited about with the new design is that in an off-grid scenario with a generator and smart load, we would now need to integrate an AC disconnect for generator input (grid)  and either a fused disconnect or loads panel for any smart load output. With the 12K unit, the integrated breakers help cut down on BOS and install time. 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> -Chris 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Sat, Apr 16, 2022 at 5:35 PM Darryl Thayer via RE-wrenches <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>>>>>>> Hello, The overcurrent device is to protect the conductors.  you can put any size wire, but you must protect with the overcurrent device.  REmember in solar equipment; you may have more than one supply source.  The DC best example is solar modules connected in parallel,      on
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On Fri, Apr 15, 2022 at 8:26 PM Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>> You must meet all expected source output potentials within the design and operating limits, as long as the distribution panel and connected wiring is rated for the max output of the protected source then you are good. A 200 ATS connected to a 10 kW genny does not require 2/0 as it will never meet that rating. Just remember its whatever the max output can be plus your margin.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Apr 15, 2022, 5:44 PM Chris Sparadeo via RE-wrenches <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Hi Jason,
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> You bring up a valid point….in an off-grid scenario with the 15k do you size the conductors to the continuous capacity, surge capacity or the OCPD of the unit? 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> -Chris 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Apr 15, 2022 at 4:01 PM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> P.S. ICYMI, this inverter has a massive combined AC coupled and DC coupled capacity. They allow 15kWdc plus 19.2kWac!!! Impressive.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Apr 15, 2022 at 10:59 AM Jason Szumlanski <jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> I'm not following the wiring diagrams for this new inverter. It has 200A pass-through capability with an integrated 200A load disconnect. But then it says the wire gauge for the load out wiring can be #4 to 2/0. 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> In an off-grid scenario where there is no generator, the max continuous output is 62.5A, so I assume 80A circuit protection could be used with 80A rated wire (#4), but how is that circuit protection implemented if the 200A breaker is integrated? Do you have to run a short piece of 2/0 to an external 80A rated OCPD and then step down to #4?
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Jason Szumlanski
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> 
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> -- 
> Chris Sparadeo
> 
> 
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