[RE-wrenches] LiFePo4 Low Temp Charging Damage

Sun Jun 6 13:49:44 EDT 2021

This is the way any battery designed for off grid use should be set up. 
Life Blue may be a small supplier, but they are technically way ahead of 
the Li+ pack on monitoring, BMS, and cold weather operation.

SOC: No complicated comm, just blue tooth on a phone, don't even need 
cell service. It works, even before you unpack the battery.

BMS: can mostly accept default lead acid controller and inverter 
settings, so no weird compatibility issues. Just swap batteries.

Heating:  just optimizes the PV to do the job, no external fuss.

In the end, as fancy as these are on the inside, they literally are just 
a drop-in replacement for an equivalent 12 v lead acid battery, even the 
same form factor.  Their only problem is they don't come in 24 and 48 v 
offerings.

Full Disclosure:  I am not affiliated in any way with LiFe Blue, I just 
appreciate good practical engineering.  Other manus seem to have almost 
zero desire to listen to wrenches and improve their designs.

Ray Walters
Remote Solar
303 505-8760

On 6/6/21 1:31 PM, larry at starlightsolar.com wrote:
> The problem with Battle born heated battery is that it was an after 
> thought. It uses power from the battery to heat itself and may fully 
> discharge the battery.
>
> LiFeBlue battery does not use any energy from the battery for heating. 
> It also has an advanced BMS-heater controller that can pass low 
> current, up to 0.07C, directly to the cells so early morning PV solar 
> power is fully utilized until enough charge current is available to 
> turn on the internal heater. In addition to all batteries having 
> Bluetooth SoC monitoring built in, the Version 3 batteries have dual 
> modbus ports for developing communications and control.
> https://www.lifebluebattery.com/rv-boat-low-temperature-lithium-ion-batteries/300ah-d-lt-lithium-battery.html 
> <https://www.lifebluebattery.com/rv-boat-low-temperature-lithium-ion-batteries/300ah-d-lt-lithium-battery.html>
>
> Larry Crutcher
> Starlight Solar Power Systems
> (Disclosure: I have a financial interest in LiFeBlue Battery)
>
>
>
>
> On Jun 5, 2021, at 4:52 PM, Chris Worcester <chris at solarwindworks.com 
> <mailto:chris at solarwindworks.com>> wrote:
>
> Check out Battle Born Batteries out of Reno, they have heater kits 
> available for their LiFePO4 100 ah batteries. Just came out with a 280 
> ah 8D size, don't see a heater kit for it yet. Will check back in with 
> them soon to see if it's on the shelf.
>
> Chris Worcester
> Solar Wind Works
> NABCEP PV Installation Professional
> Cell 530-448-9692
> www.solarwindworks.com <http://www.solarwindworks.com>
> chris at solarwindworks.com
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: RE-wrenches <re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org> On 
> Behalf Of Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
> Sent: Friday, May 21, 2021 12:33 PM
> To: RE-wrenches <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>
> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] LiFePo4 Low Temp Charging Damage
>
> I can think of a few other things for the wish list! l Closed loop 
> charging with multiple sources.
> Robust BMS design to not be a new source of power failures Offgrid.
> Spare BMS for sale with product that is servicable.
> Gets Soc and temp into Insight and Optics A company that will be there 
> when I need them. Too many players in the battery game right now that 
> I do not know of! Only a few that do most all of these for me.
>
> Friday !
>
> Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
> "we go where powerlines don't"
> http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
> e-mail offgridsolar at sti.net
> text 209 813 0060
>
>
> On Fri, 21 May 2021 12:24:11 -0400, Ray <ray at solarray.com> wrote:
>> This is the only company I know of that has dealt with the low
>> temperature charging issue.  Its a great product, and the blue tooth
>> monitoring is an excellent feature too.  This is what the other Li+
>> batteries should be doing.  The big down side is they are currently
>> limited to 12v.  Wish they made a 48v pack.
>>
>>
> https://www.lifebluebattery.com/rv-boat-low-temperature-lithium-ion-batteries/index.html
>>
>> Ray Walters
>> Remote Solar
>> 303 505-8760
>>
>> On 5/21/21 12:12 PM, Larry wrote:
>>> My personal opinion is that you should not buy any lithium battery
>>> that does not provide adequate protection for all modes of operation.
>>>
>>> Freezing does not damage the battery; charging a frozen battery may
>>> damage it quickly. Trickle charging the battery is not the solution.
>>>
>>> There are two solutions: provide a heat source to keep the batteries
>>> above freezing or incorporate a temperature controller to disable the
>>> charger if the battery is unsafe to charge.
>>>
>>> Larry Crutcher
>>>
>>>
>>>> On May 21, 2021, at 8:44 AM, Mark Frye <markf at berkeleysolar.com>
> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Folks,
>>>>
>>>> If I have a charger that does not have low battery charge cut-off, I
>>>> can get in trouble if I have a frozen pack and apply a charging
> voltage.
>>>>
>>>> But, if I start with a pack that is above freezing and keep a
>>>> trickle charge on it, can I keep that pack safe from freezing and 
>>>> damage?
>>>>
>>>> Or at some point, as ambient temperature drops, the pack will freeze
>>>> and be damaged anyway?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>>
>>>> Mark Frye
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>>>
>>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org
>>>
>>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
>>>
>>> Change listserver email address & settings:
>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>>>
>>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try
>>> the other:
>>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/
>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>>>
>>> List rules & etiquette:
>>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>>>
>>> Check out or update participant bios:
>>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>>
>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org
>>
>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
>>
>> Change listserver email address & settings:
>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>>
>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try
> the
>> other:
>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/
>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>>
>> List rules & etiquette:
>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>>
>> Check out or update participant bios:
>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org
> _______________________________________________
> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>
> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org
>
> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
>
> Change listserver email address & settings:
> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>
> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try 
> the other:
> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/
> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>
> List rules & etiquette:
> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>
> Check out or update participant bios:
> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>
> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org
>
> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
>
> Change listserver email address & settings:
> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>
> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try 
> the other:
> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/
> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>
> List rules & etiquette:
> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>
> Check out or update participant bios:
> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>
> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org
>
> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
>
> Change listserver email address & settings:
> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>
> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other:
> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/
> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>
> List rules & etiquette:
> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>
> Check out or update participant bios:
> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches_lists.re-wrenches.org/attachments/20210606/50c73bb9/attachment.htm>