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<p>This is the way any battery designed for off grid use should be
set up. Life Blue may be a small supplier, but they are
technically way ahead of the Li+ pack on monitoring, BMS, and cold
weather operation. </p>
<p>SOC: No complicated comm, just blue tooth on a phone, don't even
need cell service. It works, even before you unpack the battery.<br>
</p>
<p>BMS: can mostly accept default lead acid controller and inverter
settings, so no weird compatibility issues. Just swap batteries.<br>
</p>
<p>Heating: just optimizes the PV to do the job, no external fuss.</p>
<p>In the end, as fancy as these are on the inside, they literally
are just a drop-in replacement for an equivalent 12 v lead acid
battery, even the same form factor. Their only problem is they
don't come in 24 and 48 v offerings.</p>
<p>Full Disclosure: I am not affiliated in any way with LiFe Blue,
I just appreciate good practical engineering. Other manus seem to
have almost zero desire to listen to wrenches and improve their
designs. <br>
</p>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">Ray Walters
Remote Solar
303 505-8760</pre>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 6/6/21 1:31 PM,
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:larry@starlightsolar.com">larry@starlightsolar.com</a> wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:28E7A096-A54C-4588-A1B8-861E42C48A15@starlightsolar.com">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
The problem with Battle born heated battery is that it was an
after thought. It uses power from the battery to heat itself and
may fully discharge the battery.
<div class=""><br class="">
<div class="">LiFeBlue battery does not use any energy from the
battery for heating. It also has an advanced BMS-heater
controller that can pass low current, up to 0.07C, directly to
the cells so early morning PV solar power is fully utilized
until enough charge current is available to turn on the
internal heater. In addition to all batteries having Bluetooth
SoC monitoring built in, the Version 3 batteries have dual
modbus ports for developing communications and control.
<div class=""><a
href="https://www.lifebluebattery.com/rv-boat-low-temperature-lithium-ion-batteries/300ah-d-lt-lithium-battery.html"
class="" moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.lifebluebattery.com/rv-boat-low-temperature-lithium-ion-batteries/300ah-d-lt-lithium-battery.html</a></div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica;
font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant:
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start;
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space:
normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px;
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: break-word;
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break:
after-white-space;" class="">
<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal;
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows:
auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
0px; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space;
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class="">
<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing:
normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start;
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space:
normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px;
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap:
break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space;
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><span
style="orphans: 2; widows: 2;" class="">Larry
Crutcher</span><br style="orphans: 2; widows: 2;"
class="">
<span style="orphans: 2; widows: 2;" class="">Starlight
Solar Power Systems</span><br class="">
</div>
(Disclosure: I have a financial interest in LiFeBlue
Battery)</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline" style="color: rgb(0,
0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 14px;
font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight:
normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal;
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto;
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;">
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
</div>
<div><br class="">
<div class="">On Jun 5, 2021, at 4:52 PM, Chris Worcester
<<a href="mailto:chris@solarwindworks.com" class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">chris@solarwindworks.com</a>>
wrote:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<div class="">
<div class="">Check out Battle Born Batteries out of
Reno, they have heater kits available for their
LiFePO4 100 ah batteries. Just came out with a 280 ah
8D size, don't see a heater kit for it yet. Will check
back in with them soon to see if it's on the shelf. <br
class="">
<br class="">
Chris Worcester<br class="">
Solar Wind Works<br class="">
NABCEP PV Installation Professional<br class="">
Cell 530-448-9692<br class="">
<a href="http://www.solarwindworks.com" class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">www.solarwindworks.com</a><br
class="">
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:chris@solarwindworks.com">chris@solarwindworks.com</a><br class="">
<br class="">
-----Original Message-----<br class="">
From: RE-wrenches
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org"><re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org></a> On
Behalf Of Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar<br class="">
Sent: Friday, May 21, 2021 12:33 PM<br class="">
To: RE-wrenches
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org"><re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org></a><br class="">
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] LiFePo4 Low Temp Charging
Damage<br class="">
<br class="">
I can think of a few other things for the wish list! l
Closed loop charging with multiple sources. <br
class="">
Robust BMS design to not be a new source of power
failures Offgrid.<br class="">
Spare BMS for sale with product that is servicable.<br
class="">
Gets Soc and temp into Insight and Optics A company
that will be there when I need them. Too many players
in the battery game right now that I do not know of!
Only a few that do most all of these for me.<br
class="">
<br class="">
Friday !<br class="">
<br class="">
Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar<br class="">
"we go where powerlines don't"<br class="">
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/">http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/</a><br class="">
e-mail <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:offgridsolar@sti.net">offgridsolar@sti.net</a><br class="">
text 209 813 0060<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
On Fri, 21 May 2021 12:24:11 -0400, Ray
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:ray@solarray.com"><ray@solarray.com></a> wrote:<br class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class="">This is the only
company I know of that has dealt with the low <br
class="">
temperature charging issue. Its a great product,
and the blue tooth <br class="">
monitoring is an excellent feature too. This is
what the other Li+ <br class="">
batteries should be doing. The big down side is
they are currently <br class="">
limited to 12v. Wish they made a 48v pack.<br
class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
</blockquote>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.lifebluebattery.com/rv-boat-low-temperature-lithium-ion-batteries/index.html">https://www.lifebluebattery.com/rv-boat-low-temperature-lithium-ion-batteries/index.html</a><br
class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class=""><br class="">
Ray Walters<br class="">
Remote Solar<br class="">
303 505-8760<br class="">
<br class="">
On 5/21/21 12:12 PM, Larry wrote:<br class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class="">My personal opinion
is that you should not buy any lithium battery <br
class="">
that does not provide adequate protection for all
modes of operation.<br class="">
<br class="">
Freezing does not damage the battery; charging a
frozen battery may <br class="">
damage it quickly. Trickle charging the battery is
not the solution.<br class="">
<br class="">
There are two solutions: provide a heat source to
keep the batteries <br class="">
above freezing or incorporate a temperature
controller to disable the <br class="">
charger if the battery is unsafe to charge.<br
class="">
<br class="">
Larry Crutcher<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class="">On May 21, 2021,
at 8:44 AM, Mark Frye
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:markf@berkeleysolar.com"><markf@berkeleysolar.com></a><br class="">
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
wrote:<br class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class=""><br class="">
\ufeffFolks,<br class="">
<br class="">
If I have a charger that does not have low
battery charge cut-off, I <br class="">
can get in trouble if I have a frozen pack and
apply a charging<br class="">
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
voltage.<br class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class=""><br class="">
But, if I start with a pack that is above
freezing and keep a <br class="">
trickle charge on it, can I keep that pack safe
from freezing and damage?<br class="">
<br class="">
Or at some point, as ambient temperature drops,
the pack will freeze <br class="">
and be damaged anyway?<br class="">
<br class="">
Thanks,<br class="">
<br class="">
Mark Frye<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
_______________________________________<br
class="">
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