[RE-wrenches] Rapid Shutdown Compliance
Ray
ray at solarray.com
Thu Apr 30 10:12:23 EDT 2020
Hi Jerry;
This isn't about us not being willing to learn the tech. All of us are
constantly learning about new code changes, new inverters, and solar
modules that change specs every few months. We are voluntarily adopting
new technology (like Lithium Ion batteries) when that technology is cost
effective and reliable.
To continue your smart phone analogy, the current situation is like
forcing people in the country to give up their hard lines, when their is
only spotty 3G service available in their area. Its not that we are
Luddites; the equipment is still not quite ready for prime time.
Having some basic exemptions for small, lower voltage systems off grid
is not unreasonable.
Ray Walters
Remote Solar
303 505-8760
On 4/30/20 2:33 AM, Jerry Shafer wrote:
> Wrenches
> We are taking two very different issues and mixing them together. RSD
> and Arc-fault are different, arc fault will and does prevent fires,
> RSD was brought out of the need to vent a roof that even with the
> meter pulled have 500 volts and resulted shocks to fire fighters by
> cutting into roofs or nearby conduite. This is fact not conjecture.
> Arc fault is a fire preventer but requires nothing on the roof when
> using string level inverters. Now both RSD and arc-fault in off grid
> increase the complexity but the new charge controllers fit the arc and
> Tigo fixes the RSD issues.
> I know everyone of you learned to use a smart phone and can now adapt
> again to this new tech, we have to be leaders in this industry and not
> well you know.
> Jerry
> NABCEP PV Inspector.
> Been in this industry since 1978
>
> On Wed, Apr 29, 2020, 6:57 PM Jay <jay.peltz at gmail.com
> <mailto:jay.peltz at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> Hi Drake
>
> I will disagree, there have been many roof top fires.
>
> But regardless we have to do these new regulations and I for one
> welcome the safety.
>
> The main issue is accessing the faulty/suspect component under the
> module possibly requiring removing multiple modules, a slow and
> expensive process.
>
> My technique is to install the MLPE at the edges of the array,
> using wire extensions. That way at most I have to remove a single
> module. And Im working on a drop bracket which would allow better
> cooling and easier access without module removal to the MLPE,
> greatly reducing time to swap.
>
> Jay
>
> Peltz Power.
>
>
>
>
>
>> On Apr 29, 2020, at 7:59 AM, drake.chamberlin at redwoodalliance.org
>> <mailto:drake.chamberlin at redwoodalliance.org> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> Clearly, rapid shutdown increases cost and reduces reliability.
>> Given the excellent safety record of PV, prior to rapid shutdown
>> being required, it is unnecessary. The few anecdotal incidents of
>> PV fires were not enough to justify the requirement, especially
>> on smaller systems.
>>
>> According to a friend who worked for a local installation company
>> that went under, a big part of the reason for their failure was
>> the chronic replacement of microinverters and optimizers.
>>
>> What steps can be taken to create some balance in the rapid
>> shutdown requirements that are in the NEC?
>>
>>
>> ---
>>
>>
>> On 2020-04-29 07:27, Sky Sims wrote:
>>
>>> So far rapid shutdown has been a nightmare. It's added a lot of
>>> cost for no measurable benefit.
>>> Using always off devices like midnight solar and Tigo makes it
>>> impossible to test open circuit voltages. Which opens the door
>>> to tons of problems when commissioning systems.
>>> Also we've been trying out midnight Solar's product and have had
>>> an absurd failure rate. Which means lots of truck rolls and
>>> troubleshooting and system downtime. They send replacement
>>> product but they aren't paying for the lost weeks of productivity.
>>> We have Tigo product in hand and are deciding which project to
>>> try it on. But our big concern about using it is not only the
>>> inability to confirm open circuit voltage of the strings but
>>> also the way panels bypass if the device doesn't allow the panel
>>> to connect properly. Both of these features are a recipe for
>>> problems and potential troubleshooting nightmares. The warranty
>>> from Tigo doesn't cover our expense if the product fails. And
>>> that's really what our reservations about the product boil down
>>> to right now. If we're on a job with 50 units and one fails, the
>>> contractor or the homeowner will be the ones eating the expense
>>> of finding it and replacing it. There has to be a better option.
>>>
>>> Sky Sims
>>> Https://EcologicalSystems.biz
>>>
>>>> On Apr 28, 2020, at 7:46 PM, Corey Shalanski
>>>> <coresolar at gmail.com <mailto:coresolar at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Now that 690.12 of the /NEC/ 2017 has been in effect for
>>>> several years, I am curious how designers and installers are
>>>> meeting the associated requirements with string inverter-based
>>>> systems (*not* considering microinverters or DC optimizers). I
>>>> am generally a fan of the KISS principle, and as best I can
>>>> determine the /Tigo/ TS4-F device is one of the simplest
>>>> options currently available on the market. What are others
>>>> finding?
>>>> I'd love to hear about favored options for complying with rapid
>>>> shutdown. Any success stories? or better yet, any early failures?
>>>> --
>>>> Corey Shalanski
>>>> Jah Light Solar
>>>> Portland, Jamaica
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