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<p>Hi Jerry;</p>
<p>This isn't about us not being willing to learn the tech. All of
us are constantly learning about new code changes, new inverters,
and solar modules that change specs every few months. We are
voluntarily adopting new technology (like Lithium Ion batteries)
when that technology is cost effective and reliable. <br>
</p>
<p>To continue your smart phone analogy, the current situation is
like forcing people in the country to give up their hard lines,
when their is only spotty 3G service available in their area. Its
not that we are Luddites; the equipment is still not quite ready
for prime time. Having some basic exemptions for small, lower
voltage systems off grid is not unreasonable.<br>
</p>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">Ray Walters
Remote Solar
303 505-8760</pre>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 4/30/20 2:33 AM, Jerry Shafer wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAMUFgmXzRN3OLZeC7zi8H0rZz9RYptJe1mnGLozc5ytOGYmx_Q@mail.gmail.com">
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
<div dir="auto">Wrenches
<div dir="auto">We are taking two very different issues and
mixing them together. RSD and Arc-fault are different, arc
fault will and does prevent fires, RSD was brought out of the
need to vent a roof that even with the meter pulled have 500
volts and resulted shocks to fire fighters by cutting into
roofs or nearby conduite. This is fact not conjecture.</div>
<div dir="auto">Arc fault is a fire preventer but requires
nothing on the roof when using string level inverters. Now
both RSD and arc-fault in off grid increase the complexity but
the new charge controllers fit the arc and Tigo fixes the RSD
issues. </div>
<div dir="auto">I know everyone of you learned to use a smart
phone and can now adapt again to this new tech, we have to be
leaders in this industry and not well you know.</div>
<div dir="auto">Jerry</div>
<div dir="auto">NABCEP PV Inspector.</div>
<div dir="auto">Been in this industry since 1978 </div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Wed, Apr 29, 2020, 6:57 PM
Jay <<a href="mailto:jay.peltz@gmail.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">jay.peltz@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="auto">
<div dir="ltr">Hi Drake </div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">I will disagree, there have been many roof
top fires. </div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">But regardless we have to do these new
regulations and I for one welcome the safety. </div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">The main issue is accessing the
faulty/suspect component under the module possibly
requiring removing multiple modules, a slow and expensive
process. </div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">My technique is to install the MLPE at the
edges of the array, using wire extensions. That way at
most I have to remove a single module. And Im working on
a drop bracket which would allow better cooling and easier
access without module removal to the MLPE, greatly
reducing time to swap. </div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">Jay</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">Peltz Power. </div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
<blockquote type="cite">On Apr 29, 2020, at 7:59 AM, <a
href="mailto:drake.chamberlin@redwoodalliance.org"
target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"
moz-do-not-send="true">drake.chamberlin@redwoodalliance.org</a>
wrote:<br>
<br>
</blockquote>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">\ufeff
<p>Clearly, rapid shutdown increases cost and reduces
reliability. Given the excellent safety record of PV,
prior to rapid shutdown being required, it is
unnecessary. The few anecdotal incidents of PV fires
were not enough to justify the requirement, especially
on smaller systems. </p>
<p>According to a friend who worked for a local
installation company that went under, a big part of
the reason for their failure was the chronic
replacement of microinverters and optimizers.</p>
<p>What steps can be taken to create some balance in the
rapid shutdown requirements that are in the NEC?</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<div id="m_4647561274416640432signature">---<br>
<div style="margin:0;padding:0;font-family:monospace"> </div>
</div>
<p><br>
</p>
<p id="m_4647561274416640432reply-intro">On 2020-04-29
07:27, Sky Sims wrote:</p>
<blockquote type="cite" style="padding:0
0.4em;border-left:#1010ff 2px solid;margin:0">
<div id="m_4647561274416640432replybody1">
<div dir="auto">So far rapid shutdown has been a
nightmare. It's added a lot of cost for no
measurable benefit.
<div>Using always off devices like midnight solar
and Tigo makes it impossible to test open
circuit voltages. Which opens the door to tons
of problems when commissioning systems. </div>
<div>Also we've been trying out midnight Solar's
product and have had an absurd failure rate.
Which means lots of truck rolls and
troubleshooting and system downtime. They send
replacement product but they aren't paying for
the lost weeks of productivity.</div>
<div>We have Tigo product in hand and are deciding
which project to try it on. But our big concern
about using it is not only the inability to
confirm open circuit voltage of the strings but
also the way panels bypass if the device doesn't
allow the panel to connect properly. Both of
these features are a recipe for problems and
potential troubleshooting nightmares. The
warranty from Tigo doesn't cover our expense if
the product fails. And that's really what our
reservations about the product boil down to
right now. If we're on a job with 50 units and
one fails, the contractor or the homeowner will
be the ones eating the expense of finding it and
replacing it. There has to be a better option. </div>
<div><br>
<div dir="ltr">Sky Sims
<div><a href="Https://EcologicalSystems.biz"
target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"
moz-do-not-send="true">Https://EcologicalSystems.biz</a></div>
</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
<blockquote type="cite" style="padding:0
0.4em;border-left:#1010ff 2px
solid;margin:0">On Apr 28, 2020, at 7:46 PM,
Corey Shalanski <<a
href="mailto:coresolar@gmail.com"
target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"
moz-do-not-send="true">coresolar@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
<br>
</blockquote>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite" style="padding:0
0.4em;border-left:#1010ff 2px solid;margin:0">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">Now that 690.12 of the <em>NEC</em> 2017
has been in effect for several years, I am
curious how designers and installers are
meeting the associated requirements with
string inverter-based systems (*not*
considering microinverters or DC
optimizers). I am generally a fan of the
KISS principle, and as best I can
determine the <em>Tigo</em> TS4-F device
is one of the simplest options currently
available on the market. What are others
finding?
<div> </div>
<div>I'd love to hear about favored
options for complying with rapid
shutdown. Any success stories? or better
yet, any early failures?</div>
<div> </div>
<div>--</div>
<div>Corey Shalanski</div>
<div>Jah Light Solar</div>
<div>Portland, Jamaica</div>
</div>
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