[RE-wrenches] 705.95(B) and Sunny Boys - current on Neutral?

Fri Nov 29 16:06:06 EST 2019

Please see the third and fourth paragraph under 'Neutral Specifications' for the description of operation of the Sunny Boy US -40/-41 family.

The third paragraph is correct for ALL Sunny Boy models, that is why no model numbers are called out.  This paragraph states what you are looking for: that the neutral is NOT a current carrying conductor.

The fourth paragraph calls out the Sunny Boy US-40/-41 specifically as it can work on 240 or 208 delta services where there is no neutral conductor available. This is not supported by any other inverter referenced by the document. And this is why the third paragraph is worded "WHEN connecting two ungrounded AC conductors and a single grounded conductor to the Sunny Boy.." - it covers the Sunny Boy US-40/-41 WHEN attaching to a grounded service.

If there is any confusion by an inspector, SMA will be happy to clarify why the document is worded this way.

The "X" is to indicate that the specific inverter will support attachment to the utility service listed.  That could be explicitly called out, I will pass that feedback on.

Best regards -
Mike

SMA America
Michael Mahon
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From: Jeff Clearwater <jeffc at villagepowerdesign.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 26, 2019 2:13 PM
To: RE-wrenches <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>; scot.arey at solarcentex.com
Cc: Harry Mahon <Michael.Mahon at sma-america.com>
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] 705.95(B) and Sunny Boys - current on Neutral?

Hi Scot and Mike,

Yes It is terribly worded - an AHJ could easily read it and come away with the impression that only the TL and TriPower required the neutral only for instrumentation and voltage and phase detection - implying the rest used the neutral for current.

And your right what do the x's even mean?

I see the SMA author to be Chris Schwegler authored on July 19th, 2019.  Mike, can you send back to him for a re-write as this won't hold it's water to AHJs going forward.

Thanks!

Jeff

scot.arey at solarcentex.com<mailto:scot.arey at solarcentex.com> wrote on 11/26/19 6:42 AM:

Mike,

Thanks for posting the note, but I find the wording to be less than fully clear. According to this note, the "The transformer-less series of inverters named Sunny Boy TL-US-12, Sunny Boy TL-US-22 and Sunny Tripower 12/15/20/24000TL-US-10 have a neutral connection that is required at installation for instrumentation, voltage and phase detection only."

There is no mention of the -41 inverter also using the neutral for reference only, even though the note is "applicable to the following inverter types" and that shows the -41

Also, the table has these green x marks but no annotation of what the green x indicates.

Can you clarify, please?

[simple   signature block]

From: RE-wrenches <re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org><mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org> On Behalf Of Harry Mahon
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Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] 705.95(B) and Sunny Boys - current on Neutral?

Lloyd - great find!

I am attaching a updated note that specifically calls out current products but has less code detail.

Best regards -
Mike

SMA America
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Technical Trainer, Solar Academy
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From: RE-wrenches <re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org<mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org>> On Behalf Of Lloyd Hoffstatter
Sent: Wednesday, November 13, 2019 10:38 AM
To: Jeff Clearwater <jeffc at villagepowerdesign.com<mailto:jeffc at villagepowerdesign.com>>; RE-wrenches <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org<mailto:re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>>
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] 705.95(B) and Sunny Boys - current on Neutral?

Jeff,

An oldie but attached tech note explains.
May Need to upsize G / N  for voltage drop depending on run...

Best regards,

Lloyd

Lloyd Hoffstatter
Sunstruck Consulting

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From: RE-wrenches <re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org<mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org>> on behalf of Jeff Clearwater <jeffc at villagepowerdesign.com<mailto:jeffc at villagepowerdesign.com>>
Sent: Wednesday, November 13, 2019 12:00:37 PM
To: RE-wrenches <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org<mailto:re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>>
Subject: [RE-wrenches] 705.95(B) and Sunny Boys - current on Neutral?

Hey Folks,

So does anyone have a reference I can show my AJH as to whether there is any current on the neutral of a single phase 240 VAC SB 7.7-40 inverter?

705.95(B) states:

Neutral Conductor for Instrumentation, Voltage
Detection or Phase Detection. A conductor used solely for
instrumentation, voltage detection, or phase detection and
connected to a single-phase or 3-phase utility-interactive
inverter, shall be permitted to be sized at less than the
ampacity of the other current-carrying conductors and shall
be sized equal to or larger than the equipment grounding
conductor.

Be great not have to run 3/0 wire to my dedicated PV subpanel with 5 SB7.7s.  At 200 Amps I could use 6 AWG according to 705.95.  A huge savings in wire pull hassle not to mention copper.

Are there any other practical considerations for those SBs to operate well if I were to go that low with the neutral?

Anybody have any field experience with AJHs on this?

Thanks,

Jeff
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Village Power Design
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