[RE-wrenches] Batt Cap AGM
Ray
ray at solarray.com
Wed Nov 21 07:00:44 EST 2018
Regardless of the Amazing Batcap 30 yr claims debunked by Dan, a system
wired in the manner described (5 batteries in parallel, then series
connecting the sets of 5 for 48 v) is just not going to charge and
discharge evenly. Its violated the no more than 4 parallel strings
rule, so I'm surprised it lasted even 5 years. My guess is that some of
the batteries are toast and some may have a bit of life in them, since
they were so grossly imbalanced, so a neighbor might be able to use a
few of the best ones for a couple more years. Ultimately the rule in off
grid solar is "Batteries are the Weakest Link". The customer is not
going to have a decent experience until they replace that mess with a
properly sized and wired battery bank from a reputable manufacturer.
I won't take on new clients if we can't get the system up to snuff. I
don't need those oh so predictable calls that the power is off again.
Ray Walters
Remote Solar
303 505-8760
On 11/21/18 1:06 AM, Dan Fink wrote:
> Hello All; I would question the client about the origin of this
> battery bank. New, used, how long in storage and in service, etc. If
> he bought these new, that's a very expensive battery bank!
>
> Usually when I've run into banks of massively parallel, low amp-hour
> sealed lead acid batteries, the origin was "a great surplus deal on a
> whole bunch of batteries from wheelchairs/UPS units/manufacturer
> overrun etc."
>
> My BS meter on the manufacturer Batcap was triggered by a few things....
>
> -The company is focused on selling audiophiles xxxscratch thatxxx
> punks with car stereos so loud they set off car alarms 6 spots down.
> They need lots of amps right now to thump that bass.
>
> - The company name Batcap targets the capacitor boost market for this
> application, but actually a dedicated battery is a great idea, as it
> would recharge quickly from the (often up-sized) car alternator. But
> some folks seem to think the name implies there's a capacitor
> involved. There isn't. Sneaky language in the company name.
>
> - Sealed, low internal resistance, 100-125 amp-hours. Sounds like a
> stock AGM to me, compared to a VRSLA.
>
> - Spec sheet contains grammatical errors that indicate the writer does
> not speak English as a first language.
>
> - "Solar" seems to have been added to the website and battery label
> stickers as an afterthought....and 30 years cycle life in a solar
> application? Has Batcap been around for 30 years? Sounds like somebody
> importing Asian AGMs and sticking them with new stickers.
>
> DAN FINK
> Buckville Energy Consulting, Box Prairie CO 970-672-4342
>
>
>
> On Tue, Nov 20, 2018, 23:28 Mick Abraham <mick at abrahamsolar.com
> <mailto:mick at abrahamsolar.com> wrote:
>
> Hello, Drake & All~
>
> Drake described his service dilemma about batteries bought
> elsewhere & whether to correct the original hinky pack wiring
> (copied below). My reply below may seem cynical & I may seem too
> eager to declare the existing battery as: "Failed". Call me jaded.
>
> Mick's $0.02 is: If there's no amp-hour monitor in the system, I
> suggest you first try to persuade the homeowner to buy a metering
> shunt & a modest amp-hour meter such as the Tri-Metric--which
> could be used to measure & display the battery bank's amp-hour
> capacity. If the client won't approve that expenditure (& hourly
> labor for explanations), the service tech is hamstrung. Nobody can
> measure the health of a battery bank by just looking at it or
> talking about it...and clients sometimes receive the inevitable
> "battery bad news" if they are shown the diminished capacity on a
> digital display after an equitably managed "pump & dump".
>
> Your thought, Drake, of holding back on any re-wiring of the
> battery pack...seems prudent...until the first set of amp-hour
> measurements are recorded as a baseline. From there...a common
> pattern is a series of attempted remediation efforts--all for pay,
> of course--until the homeowner acknowledges that it's time to
> start afresh.
>
> Oops, I left out an important step: getting a read on whether the
> client has the money for new batteries or not. I'm personally
> terrible at getting that reconnaissance done early enough. If the
> client isn't materially blessed to be able to get new batteries,
> they might be better off spending limited funds on fuel for the
> engine generator instead of on battery testing & tutorials.
>
> The Wrench List is the Bomb~
>
> Mick Abraham, Proprietor
> www.abrahamsolar.com <http://www.abrahamsolar.com>
>
> Landline: 970-731-4675
> Cell phone or for text messaging: 970-946-6584
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Drake <drake.chamberlin at redwoodalliance.org
> <mailto:drake.chamberlin at redwoodalliance.org>>
> To: RE-wrenches <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
> <mailto:re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>>
> Cc:
> Bcc:
> Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2018 11:41:17 -0500
> Subject: [RE-wrenches] Batt Cap AGM
> Hello Wrenches,
>
> An owner of an existing system has a bank of twenty, 100 AH,
> 12 V Deep cycle batteries of the Batcap
> <http://www.xstaticbatcap.com/what-is-a-batcap-.html>
> <http://www.xstaticbatcap.com/what-is-a-batcap-.html>brand.
>
> The bank is made up of four sets of 5 batteries in parallel to
> produce *500 AH battery sets at 12 V.* These four parallel
> sets are then wired in series to give a 48 V nominal bank.
>
> The battery voltages vary from around 13 to 15 volts. The bank
> is about 5 years old. The CEO of Batcap told the system owner
> that these batteries have lasted up to 30 years in solar
> applications, so he has high expectations for these batteries
> being around for a while.
>
> My first impulse is to rewire the bank in a normal series -
> parallel configuration. But there are too many strings to do
> this without a bus bar. Besides, the batteries are likely
> damaged, and rewiring them might cause the bank to exhibit
> unsuspected problems. How much money is worth putting into
> this bank? $0?
>
> The owner seems like a reliable guy who likely hired the wrong
> installer. He could use some help. What would you do in this
> situation? Rewire the bank, leave it well enough alone or run
> for the hills.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Drake
>
> Drake Chamberlin
> /Athens Electric LLC
> OH License 44810
> CO License 3773
> NABCEP Certified Solar PV
> 740-448-7328
> /http://athens-electric.com/
>
> ᐧ
> ᐧ
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