[RE-wrenches] Trackers
Ray
ray at solarray.com
Fri Sep 7 11:36:42 EDT 2018
Yep, I wouldn't even consider roof mounts 15 years ago. Fall danger,
leaks, I'm an electrician not a roof jockey.... Of course the mounts,
racking, etc have improved vastly, and now I have a substantial ladder
collection. I still prefer a good ol' pole mount for installation, I
just can't justify them as much anymore.
And as far as the yard art aspect of trackers: they are indeed fun to
watch. All day long the sun would pop out from behind the clouds, and
then you run watch the tracker catch back up. I use to have trackers
that were making power at 5:30 am, very exciting as well, but just not
that practical. After replacing the third drive motor in 5 years, I
started manually setting them to be fixed arrays. They used to be fairly
sensitive to lightning, I'm sure they're better now.
Ray Walters
Remote Solar
303 505-8760
On 9/7/18 5:56 AM, RE Ellison wrote:
> Amazing what the difference of $10.00 a watt to a $1.00 a watt for
> panels makes in the design !
> Still don’t like poking holes in a perfectly good roof !
>
> Just another set of random thoughts,
> Bob Ellison
>
> On Sep 7, 2018, at 1:12 AM, Ray <ray at solarray.com
> <mailto:ray at solarray.com>> wrote:
>
>> Allan;
>>
>> That's the same math I've done, and tracking off grid just doesn't
>> pencil much of the time There is software that can model tracking vs
>> fixed. If you run these calcs and pay attention to the critical
>> winter months, its just not there. Also even when tracking might be
>> a consideration, most people do not have a dawn to dusk perfect solar
>> window, so shading starts reducing the benefits as well. I found it
>> hard enough to not shade a fixed array, so tracking is certainly not
>> adding much in a tight valley with trees.
>>
>> Its funny how my designs have shifted from tracking back in the 80s
>> and 90s, to fixed pole mounts set due south with adjustable tilt, to
>> now I'm running PV Watts and seeing that roof mounts at imperfect
>> tilt and azimuth can still have the most energy for the money: Just
>> add more modules.
>>
>> That's funny too, because if you had shown me a roof array like that
>> 20 years ago, I would have been poo pooing it for days.(That's not
>> even close to south!!...) Our racking and tracking choices have
>> changed significantly now that PV is under $1/ watt.
>>
>> Ray Walters
>> Remote Solar
>> 303 505-8760
>> On 9/6/18 9:06 PM, Allan Sindelar wrote:
>>> What am I missing here, Bill? If the tracker costs $10,000 (plus
>>> installation) to carry 24 modules, that's $416 per module, which is
>>> more than the cost of the modules themselves. I don't get the point
>>> of doing this. It almost sounds like consumer vanity - "Folks do
>>> like to watch the slow dance of the modules".
>>> How can tracking be justified?
>>>
>>> Allan Sindelar
>>> Sindelar Solar
>>> 505 780-2738
>>>
>>> On Sep 6, 2018, at 1:26 PM, Bill Hennessy <bill at berkssolar.com
>>> <mailto:bill at berkssolar.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Chris--
>>>>
>>>> We installed two 24-module AllEarth dual-axis trackers at the
>>>> request of a homeowner two years ago--"I like companies that are
>>>> from Vermont."
>>>> inspite of a higher cost as compared to a ground mount equivalent w
>>>> Krinner groundscrews.
>>>>
>>>> You can buy either the tracker alone or complete kits. The
>>>> 24-module tracker is about $10,000. The concrete base was fairly
>>>> easy to install. I think the hole was 4x4x4 with rebar crosshatch.
>>>> The frame is assembled on the ground and lifted to the pole (you
>>>> need about a18-foot lift). Our mini excavator was barely tall
>>>> enough. We did the frame layout and assembly on the excavator
>>>> trailer and it worked well. If you go to Vermont, they have a free
>>>> two-day training program where you assemble a tracker.
>>>>
>>>> One of the trackers had an early issue with a stuck hydraulic
>>>> valve. Warranty service was prompt and knowledgeable and we haven't
>>>> had issues since. We did have to upsize the Fronius inverters. My
>>>> design mistake. I typically oversize the array to the inverter, but
>>>> in the spring, the arrays were always clipping.
>>>>
>>>> Folks do like to watch the slow dance of the modules.
>>>> Bill Hennessy
>>>> Berks Solar, LLC
>>>> 371 Centennial Rd
>>>> Mertztown, PA 19539
>>>>
>>>> o 610 682 4300
>>>> c 484 560 4666
>>>> NABCEP certified installer
>>>> PA contractor #44411
>>>> www.berkssolar.com <http://www.berkssolar.com>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> *From:* "chris at OasisMontana.com <mailto:chris at oasismontana.com>"
>>>> <chris at OasisMontana.com <mailto:chris at oasismontana.com>>
>>>> *To:* 'RE-wrenches' <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
>>>> <mailto:re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>>
>>>> *Sent:* Thursday, September 6, 2018 3:37 PM
>>>> *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Trackers
>>>>
>>>> Hi Folks:I appreciate the input but I am looking for TYPES of
>>>> trackers that you may be selling (and yes, I told him about adding
>>>> more & cheaper solar modules than investing in a tracker, but it’s
>>>> the customer’s decision).Zomeworks is not what the client wants; I
>>>> would prefer dual axis; the customer’s in north central CA with a
>>>> good resource.I say go with Array Technologies but I would think
>>>> there must be something new and improved by now.
>>>> --Chris Daum/Oasis Montana
>>>> *From:*RE-wrenches <re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org
>>>> <mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org>> *On Behalf Of *Dana
>>>> *Sent:* Thursday, September 6, 2018 9:18 AM
>>>> *To:* 'RE-wrenches' <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
>>>> <mailto:re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>>
>>>> *Subject:* [RE-wrenches] Trackers
>>>> I second this observation.
>>>> I now live again off grid in a narrow N-S canyon in south central
>>>> Idaho. Having limited ground space [thanks to county regs] & not
>>>> wanting roof mounted arrays to have to clear snow from, trackers
>>>> VS. fix top of pole mounts enhance my output & they reduced the #
>>>> of modules required for my homes projected load design.
>>>>
>>>> * 6400 watts rated output on 2 Array Tech tracking arrays. Fixed
>>>> would have required 3 arrays & 6-8 more modules. Trackers are
>>>> programed to full vertical in winter to shed overnight snow
>>>> dumps, this saves time & effort in the morning when it’s a
>>>> Powder day! Can’t miss those Powder mornings.
>>>> * 5400 watts per hour in the summer when hot.
>>>> * Up to 8400 watts per hour on a cold winter day. Exactly what I
>>>> needed 31+% additional output with a 4-hour window of sun at
>>>> New Year’s Day. So far, my generator has never started…
>>>>
>>>> *A repeat from a previous RE conversation years ago, I had to see
>>>> for myself &:
>>>> Last house in CO, I had [6] 250-watt mod on a tracker & [6]
>>>> 250-watt mod on a fixed roof array.
>>>> The tracker consistently outproduced the fixed array by 32%
>>>> averaged over the year.
>>>> Trackers have their place and advantages. That said, with todays
>>>> $/watt o modules if you have the space fixed is a more
>>>> cost-effective way to proceed.
>>>> Signed - A 25-year tracker advocate.
>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> Dana Orzel Great Solar Works, Inc.
>>>> *C - 208.721.7003 dana at solarwork.com <mailto:dana at solarwork.com>*
>>>> Idaho Contractor - # 028765 Idaho PV # 028374
>>>> NABCEP # 051112-136 www.solarwork.biz <http://www.solarwork.biz/>
>>>> _"Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988" _
>>>> *P*Please consider the environment before printing this email.
>>>> *From:* RE-wrenches <re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org
>>>> <mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org>> *On Behalf Of
>>>> *Chris Schaefer
>>>> *Sent:* Thursday, September 06, 2018 8:27 AM
>>>> *To:* RE-wrenches <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
>>>> <mailto:re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>>
>>>> *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Trackers
>>>> To All,
>>>> Seen it first hand with existing Northeast offgrid clients that had
>>>> old pole mounts with lots of generator usage during the winter
>>>> months. Added a single 12 module DAT and generator usage was down
>>>> to as little as twice in the entire winter. Others usage was down
>>>> to just a handful of times required from genny. They are great at
>>>> shedding snow. Bottom line is generator usage was cut in most cases
>>>> by 75% or better. I'm a believer here in upstate NY.
>>>> Christopher
>>>> Chris Schaefer’s
>>>> <http://www.solarandwindfx.com/>
>>>> /Tel/Fax 585-229-2083 or Cell 585-748-1870
>>>> //5115 South Hill Road ~ Canandaigua New York 14424
>>>> www.solarandwindfx.com <http://www.solarandwindfx.com/> ~ E-mail:
>>>> //chris at solarandwindfx.com <mailto:chris at solarandwindfx.com>/
>>>> //
>>>> Thomas Jefferson, the author of our great Constitution, once said,
>>>> "democracy" will cease to exist when you take away from those who
>>>> are willing to work and give to those who would not."
>>>> On Thu, Sep 6, 2018 at 12:37 AM, Andrew Truitt <atruitt at gmail.com
>>>> <mailto:atruitt at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> These guys are new but I've heard good things:
>>>> http://www.sulasindustries.com/
>>>> *
>>>> Regards, *
>>>> *Andrew Truitt | DRV <http://dr.ventures/>*
>>>> www.dr.ventures <http://www.dr.ventures/>
>>>> d: 202.486.7507
>>>> NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional ID: 032407-66
>>>> Colorado Journeyman Electrician License No.: 600132
>>>>
>>>> "Don't get me wrong: I love nuclear energy! It's just that I
>>>> prefer fusion to fission. And it just so happens that there's
>>>> an enormous fusion reactor safely banked a few million miles
>>>> from us. It delivers more than we could ever use in just about
>>>> 8 minutes. And it's wireless!"
>>>>
>>>> ~William McDonough
>>>> On Wed, Sep 5, 2018 at 9:38 PM Sindelar Solar
>>>> <Allan at sindelarsolar.com <mailto:Allan at sindelarsolar.com>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Bill,
>>>> No, I'm with you on this.Given the the greatest boost (~+/-
>>>> 30%) of daily tracking is during the summer and most
>>>> stand-alone applications are winter-peak (where tracking
>>>> adds at best 10-15%), seasonal water pumping is about the
>>>> only time when small-scale tracking is justified over
>>>> simply adding array. Any pumping where the source is slow
>>>> enough that the length of the day becomes an important
>>>> factor, like drip irrigation or a very low yield well or
>>>> spring, is worth looking into. But that's about it in my
>>>> experience.
>>>> Allan
>>>> --
>>>> *Allan Sindelar*
>>>> allan at sindelarsolar.com <mailto:allan at sindelarsolar.com>
>>>> NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional
>>>> New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician
>>>> Founder (Retired), Positive Energy, Inc.
>>>> *505 780-2738 cell*
>>>> On 9/5/2018 5:53 PM, solar1online at charter.net
>>>> <mailto:solar1online at charter.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Chris,
>>>> I thought since solar PV prices have come down
>>>> (understatement), is it not more cost effective to buy
>>>> more modules than a tracker? Are there scenarios that
>>>> the above would not ring true? (As I remember, off grid
>>>> water pumping for livestock ponds may still be an
>>>> exception as also, limited space.) Please advise.
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Bill Loesch
>>>> Solar 1 - Saint Louis Solar
>>>> 314 631 1094
>>>> ----------------------------------------
>>>> From: chris at OasisMontana.com
>>>> <mailto:chris at OasisMontana.com>
>>>> Sent: Wednesday September 5 2018 3:45:25PM
>>>> Dear people:
>>>> What trackers are y’all using nowadays? I have a
>>>> customer (with a great site) who’s insisting on a
>>>> pair. We’ve sold Zomeworks and Array Technologies in
>>>> the past, but I know there are more offerings now.
>>>> Thanks for the input!
>>>> Chris Daum
>>>> Oasis Montana Inc.
>>>> 406-777-4309 or 4321
>>>> 406-777-4309 fax
>>>> www.oasismontana.com <http://www.oasismontana.com/>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>
>>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>>>>
>>>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
>>>> <mailto:RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>
>>>>
>>>> Change listserver email address & settings:
>>>>
>>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>>>>
>>>> List-Archive:
>>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html
>>>>
>>>> List rules & etiquette:
>>>>
>>>> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>>>> <http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm>
>>>>
>>>> Check out or update participant bios:
>>>>
>>>> www.members.re-wrenches.org
>>>> <http://www.members.re-wrenches.org/>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>>>>
>>>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
>>>> <mailto:RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>
>>>>
>>>> Change listserver email address & settings:
>>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>>>>
>>>> List-Archive:
>>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html
>>>>
>>>> List rules & etiquette:
>>>> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>>>> <http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm>
>>>>
>>>> Check out or update participant bios:
>>>> www.members.re-wrenches.org
>>>> <http://www.members.re-wrenches.org/>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>>>>
>>>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
>>>> <mailto:RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>
>>>>
>>>> Change listserver email address & settings:
>>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>>>>
>>>> List-Archive:
>>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html
>>>>
>>>> List rules & etiquette:
>>>> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>>>> <http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm>
>>>>
>>>> Check out or update participant bios:
>>>> www.members.re-wrenches.org <http://www.members.re-wrenches.org/>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Chris Schaefer’s
>>>> <http://www.solarandwindfx.com/>
>>>> /Tel/Fax 585-229-2083 or Cell 585-748-1870
>>>> //5115 South Hill Road ~ Canandaigua New York 14424
>>>> www.solarandwindfx.com <http://www.solarandwindfx.com/> ~ E-mail:
>>>> //chris at solarandwindfx.com <mailto:chris at solarandwindfx.com>/
>>>> //
>>>> Thomas Jefferson, the author of our great Constitution, once said,
>>>> "democracy" will cease to exist when you take away from those who
>>>> are willing to work and give to those who would not."
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>>>>
>>>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
>>>> <mailto:RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>
>>>>
>>>> Change listserver email address & settings:
>>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>>>>
>>>> List-Archive:
>>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html
>>>>
>>>> List rules & etiquette:
>>>> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>>>> <http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm>
>>>>
>>>> Check out or update participant bios:
>>>> www.members.re-wrenches.org <http://www.members.re-wrenches.org>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>>>>
>>>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
>>>> <mailto:RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>
>>>>
>>>> Change listserver email address & settings:
>>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>>>>
>>>> List-Archive:
>>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html
>>>>
>>>> List rules & etiquette:
>>>> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>>>> <http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm>
>>>>
>>>> Check out or update participant bios:
>>>> www.members.re-wrenches.org <http://www.members.re-wrenches.org>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>>>
>>> List Address:RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
>>>
>>> Change listserver email address & settings:
>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>>>
>>> List-Archive:http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html
>>>
>>> List rules & etiquette:
>>> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>>>
>>> Check out or update participant bios:
>>> www.members.re-wrenches.org
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>>
>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
>> <mailto:RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>
>>
>> Change listserver email address & settings:
>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>>
>> List-Archive:
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html
>>
>> List rules & etiquette:
>> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>> <http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm>
>>
>> Check out or update participant bios:
>> www.members.re-wrenches.org <http://www.members.re-wrenches.org>
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>
> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
>
> Change listserver email address & settings:
> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>
> List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html
>
> List rules & etiquette:
> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>
> Check out or update participant bios:
> www.members.re-wrenches.org
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches_lists.re-wrenches.org/attachments/20180907/5bf2130e/attachment.htm>
More information about the RE-Wrenches
mailing list