[RE-wrenches] Batteries in 4' tall crawl space
Ray
ray at solarray.com
Tue Jul 31 21:10:27 EDT 2018
I've seen several instances with AGMs, where a dead cell overheated and
blew the top of the case off the battery. Looked pretty bad, but I
wasn't there when they blew. I think the prevention is to regularly
check separate battery voltages to identify weak or dying cells before
they blow. 8 years on Dekas that are losing capacity is probably
getting close to time to replace.
Ray Walters
Remote Solar
303 505-8760
On 7/31/18 2:14 PM, Ken Schaal wrote:
> And thank you Steve for reminding folks of all those nasty effects of
> outgassing hydrogen..I figured someone would, necessarily.
> These are sealed AGM, which I realize is not a guarantee of no
> hydrogen , but certainly not a constant hazzard. ALSO..
> .these are large spaces...full length of house crawl and frequently
> used garage. I tend to worry a bit more about my own bank of 4 250 AH
> ea. AGM, in a battery box of fiber cement board, under the
> inverter...no choice.
> In my case tho, it's in a 12' sq.basement , 6 steps down from the
> sunroom, and there is no door. So plenty of ventilation. ...
> What kinds of problems have wrenches had with AGM failure leading to
> significant outgassing? ?
> My Deka batteries are about 8 years old and are losing capacity, so
> looking to replace at some point....there have been a couple events
> over those years when they got a good workout, but not to the point of
> abuse. Generator when needed, 3.4 kw pv array, good sun.
> Thanks, ken
>
>
>
> On Tue, Jul 31, 2018, 1:57 PM Steve Higgins <steve at surrette.com
> <mailto:steve at surrette.com>> wrote:
>
> Hello Wrenches...
>
> Since Ken brought it up....
>
> Inverters are the most common of the ignition sources, with loose
> connections being a close second... Inside each inverter/charger
> is a transfer relay, this relay when it transfers to or from grid
> will spark. This sparking action can cause Hydrogen gas to ignite.
>
> If there is over 1% by volume of hydrogen gas in the room, cubby
> or where ever this is installed the relay arching can cause the
> hydrogen to ignite.
>
> This will flame out, much like lighting gunpowder, or gasoline
> fumes. The flame will follow the hydrogen back to the source
> (The battery) and once it gets inside the battery it will find
> compression, as the hydrogen ignites inside the battery that
> compression can/will cause the battery top to blow off...
>
> Here are some examples of what it looks like when you have a
> hydrogen Ignition...
> https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/17H274ArR99FejHqCurn_9-hgJDSegPOv?usp=sharing.
>
> The number one way to prevent this is to put enough air flow thru
> the room to remove the hydrogen gas before it can ignite.
>
> Also Hydrogen gas is very corrosive... I still don't know why
> people install inverter/charge controller right above battery
> banks, I've seen charge controllers installed right above the
> battery bank that any non-conformal coated connection was corroded
> due to hydrogen gasses.
>
> I've found that it's always best to enclose any battery bank in
> some box and at the highest point in the box put in a fan to
> remove the hydrogen from the box when the battery voltage gets
> above 2.25vpc/13.4v/26.8v/54v.
>
> This is a pretty good article on calculating gassing from a
> battery bank.
>
> http://giantbatteryco.com/GLOSSARY/Calculate.Industrial.Battery.Hydrogen.Gas.Emission.html
>
>
>
>
>
>
> <http://www.rollsbattery.com>
> Steve Higgins ⋅ Technical Services Manager
> t+1.902.597.4020 m +1.206.790.5840
> f+1.902.597.8447 esteve at surrette.com <mailto:steve at surrette.com>
> <http://www.facebook.com/RollsBattery>
> <http://www.twitter.com/RollsBattery>
> <https://www.youtube.com/user/RollsBattery>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/rolls-battery-engineering><http://www.instagram.com/RollsBattery>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> CONFIDENTIALITY: The information transmitted herein is intended
> only for the addressee and may contain confidential, proprietary
> and/or privileged material. Any unauthorized review, distribution
> or other use of or the taking of any action in reliance upon this
> information is prohibited. If you receive this email in error,
> please contact the sender and delete or destroy this message and
> all copies.
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
> On Tue, Jul 31, 2018 at 9:18 AM Ken Schaal
> <Ken at commonwealthsolar.com <mailto:Ken at commonwealthsolar.com>> wrote:
>
> I have a set of AGM's installed near the inverter, on a roll
> out dolly, under the landing, up 5 steps from the garage to
> the 1st fl..
> Another set of AGM's in a 4-5' crawl space. Was a bit of a
> tussle last year to replace those four, but then I was 72 with
> achy knees. 8 ' from access door to batteries. White,
> reinforced vapor barrier closed crawl space. No ignition
> source like water heater.
>
> Inverter mounted high on wall adjoining batteries.
> SCP in kitchen for info.
> Ken Schaal
> Commonwealthsolar.com
>
>
> On Tue, Jul 31, 2018, 10:21 AM Chris Schaefer
> <chris at solarandwindfx.com <mailto:chris at solarandwindfx.com>>
> wrote:
>
> Jerry,
>
> Attached is a picture of a battery box made out of red oak
> that houses a set of twelve Surrette Rolls 4ks25
> underneath the clients stair landing. The inverter system
> is just off to the left and is in the "game" room. Thus
> the client wanted the battery box to resemble a piece of
> fine furniture. Well we accomplished that but the client
> is over 6 foot and we both always grumble when having to
> service these. While code is critical just imagine when
> you're in your 50's and 60's and still having to service
> these. Never again, LOL!
>
> Christopher Schaefer
>
> Chris Schaefer’s
> <http://www.solarandwindfx.com/>
> /Tel/Fax 585-229-2083 or Cell 585-748-1870
> //5115 South Hill Road ~ Canandaigua New York 14424
> //www.solarandwindfx.com <http://www.solarandwindfx.com/>~
> E-mail:chris at solarandwindfx.com
> <mailto:chris at solarandwindfx.com>/
>
> /
> /
>
> Thomas Jefferson, the author of our great Constitution,
> once said, "democracy" will cease to exist when you take
> away from those who are willing to work and give to those
> who would not."
>
>
>
> On Mon, Jul 30, 2018 at 12:19 AM, frenergy
> <frenergy at psln.com <mailto:frenergy at psln.com>> wrote:
>
> Jerry,
>
> I serviced a system that (who became my)
> customer installed just like that. To me, it doesn't
> really matter what the NEC thinks about it. It was
> great because it showed me what I would *never*
> duplicate in my repertoire of installs.
>
> Bill
>
>
> On 7/28/2018 5:10 PM, Jerry Caldwell wrote:
>> Wrenches,
>>
>> I have a customer who wants to have batteries
>> installed in a 4' tall crawl space / short basement.
>> Are there any accessibility code issues with
>> installing batteries in a crawl space? Does the NEC
>> address this?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Jerry Caldwell
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>>
>> List Address:RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
>> <mailto:RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>
>>
>> Change listserver email address & settings:
>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>>
>> List-Archive:http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html
>>
>> List rules & etiquette:
>> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>> <http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm>
>>
>> Check out or update participant bios:
>> www.members.re-wrenches.org
>> <http://www.members.re-wrenches.org>
>>
>
> --
> Feather River Solar Electric
> Bill Battagin, Owner
> 4291 Nelson St.
> Taylorsville, CA 95983
> 530.284.7849
> CA Lic 874049
> www.frenergy.net <http://www.frenergy.net>
>
>
> <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient&utm_term=icon>
> Virus-free. www.avast.com
> <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient&utm_term=link>
>
>
> <#m_5694868012574544696_m_1083934589469718641_m_6716287820509096766_m_4175795908426477908_DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
>
> _______________________________________________
> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>
> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
> <mailto:RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>
>
> Change listserver email address & settings:
> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>
> List-Archive:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html
>
> List rules & etiquette:
> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
> <http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm>
>
> Check out or update participant bios:
> www.members.re-wrenches.org
> <http://www.members.re-wrenches.org>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Chris Schaefer’s
> <http:www.solarandwindfx.com>
> /Tel/Fax 585-229-2083 or Cell 585-748-1870
> //5115 South Hill Road ~ Canandaigua New York 14424
> //www.solarandwindfx.com <http://www.solarandwindfx.com> ~
> E-mail: chris at solarandwindfx.com
> <mailto:chris at solarandwindfx.com>/
>
> /
> /
>
> Thomas Jefferson, the author of our great Constitution,
> once said, "democracy" will cease to exist when you take
> away from those who are willing to work and give to those
> who would not."
>
> _______________________________________________
> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>
> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
> <mailto:RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>
>
> Change listserver email address & settings:
> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>
> List-Archive:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html
>
> List rules & etiquette:
> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
> <http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm>
>
> Check out or update participant bios:
> www.members.re-wrenches.org
> <http://www.members.re-wrenches.org>
>
> _______________________________________________
> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>
> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
> <mailto:RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>
>
> Change listserver email address & settings:
> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>
> List-Archive:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html
>
> List rules & etiquette:
> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
> <http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm>
>
> Check out or update participant bios:
> www.members.re-wrenches.org <http://www.members.re-wrenches.org>
>
> _______________________________________________
> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>
> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
> <mailto:RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>
>
> Change listserver email address & settings:
> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>
> List-Archive:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html
>
> List rules & etiquette:
> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
> <http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm>
>
> Check out or update participant bios:
> www.members.re-wrenches.org <http://www.members.re-wrenches.org>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>
> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
>
> Change listserver email address & settings:
> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>
> List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html
>
> List rules & etiquette:
> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>
> Check out or update participant bios:
> www.members.re-wrenches.org
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches_lists.re-wrenches.org/attachments/20180731/1c5e1fe8/attachment.htm>
More information about the RE-Wrenches
mailing list