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<p>I've seen several instances with AGMs, where a dead cell
overheated and blew the top of the case off the battery. Looked
pretty bad, but I wasn't there when they blew. I think the
prevention is to regularly check separate battery voltages to
identify weak or dying cells before they blow. 8 years on Dekas
that are losing capacity is probably getting close to time to
replace.<br>
</p>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">Ray Walters
Remote Solar
303 505-8760</pre>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 7/31/18 2:14 PM, Ken Schaal wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAEd52_MpXKphA=Ug2GMswO7w7H9qHQuK2ihOK7RNe_ApMBRYJA@mail.gmail.com">
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
<div dir="auto">
<div>And thank you Steve for reminding folks of all those nasty
effects of outgassing hydrogen..I figured someone would,
necessarily.
<div dir="auto">These are sealed AGM, which I realize is not a
guarantee of no hydrogen , but certainly not a constant
hazzard. ALSO..</div>
<div dir="auto">.these are large spaces...full length of house
crawl and frequently used garage. I tend to worry a bit
more about my own bank of 4 250 AH ea. AGM, in a battery box
of fiber cement board, under the inverter...no choice. </div>
<div dir="auto">In my case tho, it's in a 12' sq.basement , 6
steps down from the sunroom, and there is no door. So plenty
of ventilation. ...</div>
<div dir="auto">What kinds of problems have wrenches had with
AGM failure leading to significant outgassing? ?</div>
<div dir="auto">My Deka batteries are about 8 years old and
are losing capacity, so looking to replace at some
point....there have been a couple events over those years
when they got a good workout, but not to the point of abuse.
Generator when needed, 3.4 kw pv array, good sun.</div>
<div dir="auto">Thanks, ken</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr">On Tue, Jul 31, 2018, 1:57 PM Steve Higgins
<<a href="mailto:steve@surrette.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">steve@surrette.com</a>> wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">Hello Wrenches...
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Since Ken brought it up.... <br>
<br>
Inverters are the most common of the ignition sources,
with loose connections being a close second... Inside
each inverter/charger is a transfer relay, this relay
when it transfers to or from grid will spark. This
sparking action can cause Hydrogen gas to ignite. <br>
<br>
If there is over 1% by volume of hydrogen gas in the
room, cubby or where ever this is installed the relay
arching can cause the hydrogen to ignite.
<div><br>
</div>
<div>This will flame out, much like lighting
gunpowder, or gasoline fumes. The flame will
follow the hydrogen back to the source (The battery)
and once it gets inside the battery it will find
compression, as the hydrogen ignites inside the
battery that compression can/will cause the battery
top to blow off... </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Here are some examples of what it looks like when
you have a hydrogen Ignition... </div>
<div><a
href="https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/17H274ArR99FejHqCurn_9-hgJDSegPOv?usp=sharing"
target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/17H274ArR99FejHqCurn_9-hgJDSegPOv?usp=sharing</a>.<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>The number one way to prevent this is to put
enough air flow thru the room to remove the hydrogen
gas before it can ignite. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Also Hydrogen gas is very corrosive... I still
don't know why people install inverter/charge
controller right above battery banks, I've seen
charge controllers installed right above the battery
bank that any non-conformal coated connection was
corroded due to hydrogen gasses. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I've found that it's always best to enclose any
battery bank in some box and at the highest point in
the box put in a fan to remove the hydrogen from the
box when the battery voltage gets above
2.25vpc/13.4v/26.8v/54v. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>This is a pretty good article on calculating
gassing from a battery bank. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><a
href="http://giantbatteryco.com/GLOSSARY/Calculate.Industrial.Battery.Hydrogen.Gas.Emission.html"
target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"
moz-do-not-send="true">http://giantbatteryco.com/GLOSSARY/Calculate.Industrial.Battery.Hydrogen.Gas.Emission.html</a><br>
</div>
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<div style="float:left;padding:1px 10px 0px 0px"><a
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<div style="font:bold 14px/20px
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color="#bb1a1d">Steve Higgins \u22c5 </font><span
style="color:rgb(64,64,64);font-size:12px">Technical
Services Manager</span> </div>
<div style="font:bold 12px/20px
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color="#bb1a1d"> t</font><span
style="color:rgb(184,39,106)"> <span
style="font-weight:normal;color:rgb(64,64,64)">+1.902.597.4020</span> </span><font
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style="color:rgb(64,64,64);font-weight:normal">+1.206.790.5840</span></div>
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<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr">On Tue, Jul 31, 2018 at 9:18 AM Ken
Schaal <<a href="mailto:Ken@commonwealthsolar.com"
target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"
moz-do-not-send="true">Ken@commonwealthsolar.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="auto">
<div>I have a set of AGM's installed near the
inverter, on a roll out dolly, under the landing,
up 5 steps from the garage to the 1st fl..
<div dir="auto">Another set of AGM's in a 4-5'
crawl space. Was a bit of a tussle last year to
replace those four, but then I was 72 with achy
knees. 8 ' from access door to batteries.
White, reinforced vapor barrier closed crawl
space. No ignition source like water heater.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Inverter mounted high on wall
adjoining batteries. </div>
<div dir="auto">SCP in kitchen for info.</div>
<div dir="auto">Ken Schaal</div>
<div dir="auto">Commonwealthsolar.com </div>
<br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr">On Tue, Jul 31, 2018, 10:21 AM
Chris Schaefer <<a
href="mailto:chris@solarandwindfx.com"
target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"
moz-do-not-send="true">chris@solarandwindfx.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0
0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc
solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">Jerry,
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Attached is a picture of a battery box
made out of red oak that houses a set of
twelve Surrette Rolls 4ks25 underneath the
clients stair landing. The inverter system
is just off to the left and is in the
"game" room. Thus the client wanted the
battery box to resemble a piece of fine
furniture. Well we accomplished that but t<span
style="font-size:small;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;float:none;display:inline">he
client is over 6 foot and we both always
grumble when having to service these.
While code is critical just imagine when
you're in your 50's and 60's and still
having to service these. Never again,
LOL!</span></div>
<div><span
style="font-size:small;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;float:none;display:inline"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span
style="font-size:small;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;float:none;display:inline">Christopher
Schaefer</span></div>
<div><span
style="font-size:small;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;float:none;display:inline">
<p
style="text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;text-align:center"><span
style="font-size:10pt;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><font face="Arial,
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</font></span><a
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style="color:rgb(17,85,204);font-size:12.8px" rel="noreferrer
noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"><img
src="http://www.solarandwindfx.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/Solar-Wind-FX-Logo.png"
style="color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:Arial,sans-serif;font-size:10pt"
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height="40"></a><br>
<i><span
style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><span
style="font-size:9pt">Tel/Fax
585-229-2083 or Cell
585-748-1870 </span><span
style="font-size:12px"><br>
</span></span></i><i
style="font-size:12.8px"><span
style="font-size:10pt"><font
color="#1f497d"><font
face="Arial, sans-serif">5115
South Hill Road ~ Canandaigua
New York 14424<br>
</font></font></span></i><i
style="font-size:12.8px"><span
style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><a
href="http://www.solarandwindfx.com/" style="color:rgb(17,85,204)"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="color:blue">www.solarandwindfx.com</span></a><span> </span>~
E-mail:<span> </span><span
style="color:blue"><a
href="mailto:chris@solarandwindfx.com"
style="color:rgb(17,85,204)"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer"
target="_blank"
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<p
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<p
style="text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;text-align:center"><span
style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black">Thomas
Jefferson, the author of our great
Constitution, once said, "democracy"
will cease to exist when you take
away from those who are willing to
work and give to those who would
not."</span></p>
<br>
</span></div>
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<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Jul 30,
2018 at 12:19 AM, frenergy <span
dir="ltr"><<a
href="mailto:frenergy@psln.com"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">frenergy@psln.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px
#ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
<p>Jerry,</p>
<p> I serviced a system
that (who became my) customer
installed just like that. To me, it
doesn't really matter what the NEC
thinks about it. It was great
because it showed me what I would <b>never</b>
duplicate in my repertoire of
installs.</p>
<p>Bill<br>
</p>
<br>
<div
class="m_5694868012574544696m_1083934589469718641m_6716287820509096766m_4175795908426477908moz-cite-prefix">On
7/28/2018 5:10 PM, Jerry Caldwell
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div style="font-family:Helvetica
Neue,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">
<div style="font-family:Helvetica
Neue,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">Wrenches,<br>
<div><br>
<div>I have a customer who
wants to have batteries
installed in a 4' tall crawl
space / short basement. Are
there any accessibility code
issues with installing
batteries in a crawl space?
Does the NEC address this?<br>
<div><br>
<div>Thanks,<br>
Jerry Caldwell<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
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src="http://www.solarandwindfx.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/Solar-Wind-FX-Logo.png"
style="color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:Arial,sans-serif;font-size:10pt"
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width="200" height="40"></a><br>
<i><span
style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><span
style="font-size:9pt">Tel/Fax
585-229-2083 or Cell
585-748-1870 </span><span
style="font-size:12px"><br>
</span></span></i><i
style="font-size:12.8px"><span
style="font-size:10pt"><font
color="#1f497d"><font
face="Arial,
sans-serif">5115
South Hill Road ~
Canandaigua New York
14424<br>
</font></font></span></i><i
style="font-size:12.8px"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><a
href="http://www.solarandwindfx.com" rel="noreferrer noreferrer"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="color:blue">www.solarandwindfx.com</span></a>
~ E-mail: <span
style="color:blue"><a
href="mailto:chris@solarandwindfx.com"
rel="noreferrer
noreferrer"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">chris@solarandwindfx.com</a></span></span></i></p>
<p style="text-align:center"><i><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><img
src="http://solarandwindfx.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/certs.jpg"
moz-do-not-send="true"
width="200" height="56"><br>
</span></i></p>
<p style="text-align:center"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black">Thomas
Jefferson,
the author of our great
Constitution, once said,
"democracy" will
cease to exist when you take
away from those who are
willing to work and give
to those who would not."</span><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"></span></p>
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<pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
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Change listserver email address & settings:
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List-Archive: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html">http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html</a>
List rules & etiquette:
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm">www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm</a>
Check out or update participant bios:
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.members.re-wrenches.org">www.members.re-wrenches.org</a>
</pre>
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