[RE-wrenches] Rapid Shutdown and January 1 2019 option?

[cwarfel]

Thanks Ray, I am sure the moderator will let me know if this is off 
topic, but I would be willing to help organize a petition drive to 
repeal this part of the NEC and because there are good reasons. Not 
because it's "inconvenient". Long time manufacturers, who historically 
produced safe and high quality product(s) are being harmed by this 
language, which in turn, benefited others.  Safety is not necessarily 
increased.  I feel CMP 4 got hijacked focusing on this issue.  There has 
been good reorganization and integration of 690 with other Articles, but 
RS is not reflective of this effort. Just the labeling requirements show 
that.

There is a lot of focus on resiliency and the NEC increased the cost and 
didnot improvethe safety of DC coupled multimode systems.  So instead of 
incorporating the roof resource that could be used to meet resiliency 
goals, we are taking roofs out of some design considerations, and 
increasing the costs for the other options.

Chris


On 7/6/2018 1:32 PM, Ray wrote:
>
> Midnite has some string level and module level 690.12 disconnects that 
> wire in like an optimizer or micro inverter, so those should be able 
> to meet the 2019 requirements.  However beware:  they as of yet still 
> don't have a reasonable disconnect system to disconnect the charge 
> controller which has capacitors that back feed the PV line for up to 
> 90 seconds.  They have a DC GFI breaker with remote trip capability 
> but it takes 4 spaces, so with multiple charge controllers it turns 
> into a wiring mess really fast.
>
> I actually wired in some 60 amp rated diodes on one system to get it 
> to pass inspection; what a joke, going back to 1980s equipment to pass 
> 2017 code.    690.12 is an absolute nightmare for small off grid.  
> There really should be some exemptions for small arrays (under 3 kW) 
> and under 100 vdc.  Fire fighters are not going to get there till the 
> structure is down anyway, Response times are up to an hour for remote 
> locations with volunteer fire departments.  Its not like in town at 
> all;  no one is going to go on the roof on an off grid fire.
>
> On the flip side, there are real dangers created by nuisance tripping 
> of 690.12 equipment.  Again, on grid it's a mere inconvenience, but 
> off grid it could mean spoiled food, frozen water lines, shut down 
> heating systems in subzero temperatures, and for the elderly: loss of 
> their breathing machines.  I've already had a 74 year old customer 
> climbing on their roof multiple times to reset the Rapid shutdown 
> equipment after nuisance trips.  Are we going to wait until we get 
> someone killed in the name of "Safety" before we fix this?
>
> Ray Walters
> Remote Solar
> 303 505-8760
> On 7/6/18 9:55 AM, cwarfel wrote:
>>
>> I am wondering about the experience installers have with a DC coupled 
>> multimode system design that will comply after January 1 with what I 
>> feel is the biggest mistake/poorly guided part of NEC 2017 690, and 
>> that is 690.12. We are installing two Outback systems with the remote 
>> controlled combiner and even that won't comply after January 1 unless 
>> we parallel more subarrays (There's safety for you, lower 
>> voltage-higher amperage!). Thanks for any insight.
>>
>> Chris
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -- 
>>
>>          Christopher Warfel, PE
>>        ENTECH Engineering, Inc.
>> PO Box 871, Block Island, RI 02807
>>                (401)466-8978
>>
>> EEI logo <http://entech-engineering.com>
>>
>>
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-- 

          Christopher Warfel, PE
        ENTECH Engineering, Inc.
PO Box 871, Block Island, RI 02807
                (401)466-8978

EEI logo <http://entech-engineering.com>
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