<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
</head>
<body text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
<p><font face="Verdana">Thanks Ray, I am sure the moderator will let
me know if th<font face="Verdana">is is off topic, but I would
be willing to help organize a petition drive to repeal th<font
face="Verdana">is part of the NEC and because there are good
reasons. Not because it's "inconvenient". <font
face="Verdana">Long time manufactu<font face="Verdana">rers<font
face="Verdana">, who <font face="Verdana">historically
produce<font face="Verdana">d safe and high quality
product(s) </font></font></font>are be<font
face="Verdana">ing harmed by this language, which in
turn, be<font face="Verdana">nefi<font face="Verdana">ted
others. Safety is not necessarily i<font
face="Verdana">ncreased<font face="Verdana">. I
feel CMP 4 got hijacked focusing on <font
face="Verdana">this issue. There <font
face="Verdana">has been <font
face="Verdana">good reo<font
face="Verdana">rganization and
integration of <font face="Verdana">690
with other Articles, b<font
face="Verdana">ut R<font
face="Verdana">S is not
reflective of this effort. Just
the labeling re<font
face="Verdana">quirements show
that<font face="Verdana">. </font></font><br>
</font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></p>
<p><font face="Verdana"><font face="Verdana"><font face="Verdana"><font
face="Verdana"><font face="Verdana"><font face="Verdana"><font
face="Verdana"><font face="Verdana"><font
face="Verdana"><font face="Verdana"><font
face="Verdana"><font face="Verdana"><font
face="Verdana"><font face="Verdana"><font
face="Verdana"><font face="Verdana"><font
face="Verdana"><font
face="Verdana">There is a lot
of <font face="Verdana">focus
on resiliency and the NEC <font
face="Verdana">incr<font
face="Verdana">eased t<font
face="Verdana">he cost
and did<font
face="Verdana"> not
i<font
face="Verdana">m<font
face="Verdana">prove<font
face="Verdana">
the safety of
<font
face="Verdana">DC
coupled
multimode
systems. So
in<font
face="Verdana">s<font
face="Verdana">tead
of
incorporating
<font
face="Verdana">the
roof resource
that </font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font>could
be used to meet resil<font
face="Verdana">i<font
face="Verdana">ency goals,
we are taking <font
face="Verdana">roofs out
of some design
considerations<font
face="Verdana">, and
increas<font
face="Verdana">ing the
costs for the other
options. </font></font></font></font></font><br>
</font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></p>
<p><font face="Verdana"><font face="Verdana"><font face="Verdana"><font
face="Verdana"><font face="Verdana"><font face="Verdana"><font
face="Verdana"><font face="Verdana"><font
face="Verdana"><font face="Verdana"><font
face="Verdana"><font face="Verdana"><font
face="Verdana"><font face="Verdana"><font
face="Verdana"><font face="Verdana"><font
face="Verdana">Chris</font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font><br>
</p>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 7/6/2018 1:32 PM, Ray wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:c34015ee-d47b-2977-6039-9a4fb96eecf7@solarray.com">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
<p>Midnite has some string level and module level 690.12
disconnects that wire in like an optimizer or micro inverter, so
those should be able to meet the 2019 requirements. However
beware: they as of yet still don't have a reasonable disconnect
system to disconnect the charge controller which has capacitors
that back feed the PV line for up to 90 seconds. They have a DC
GFI breaker with remote trip capability but it takes 4 spaces,
so with multiple charge controllers it turns into a wiring mess
really fast. <br>
</p>
<p>I actually wired in some 60 amp rated diodes on one system to
get it to pass inspection; what a joke, going back to 1980s
equipment to pass 2017 code. 690.12 is an absolute nightmare
for small off grid. There really should be some exemptions for
small arrays (under 3 kW) and under 100 vdc. Fire fighters are
not going to get there till the structure is down anyway,
Response times are up to an hour for remote locations with
volunteer fire departments. Its not like in town at all; no
one is going to go on the roof on an off grid fire.</p>
<p>On the flip side, there are real dangers created by nuisance
tripping of 690.12 equipment. Again, on grid it's a mere
inconvenience, but off grid it could mean spoiled food, frozen
water lines, shut down heating systems in subzero temperatures,
and for the elderly: loss of their breathing machines. I've
already had a 74 year old customer climbing on their roof
multiple times to reset the Rapid shutdown equipment after
nuisance trips. Are we going to wait until we get someone
killed in the name of "Safety" before we fix this? <br>
</p>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">Ray Walters
Remote Solar
303 505-8760</pre>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 7/6/18 9:55 AM, cwarfel wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:501d388f-6b19-23c8-9730-4e553b32b219@entech-engineering.com">
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html;
charset=utf-8">
<p><font face="Verdana">I <font face="Verdana">am wondering
about the <font face="Verdana">experience installers have
with a DC coupled multimode <font face="Verdana">system
design that w<font face="Verdana">ill comply </font></font></font></font></font><font
face="Verdana"><font face="Verdana"><font face="Verdana"><font
face="Verdana"><font face="Verdana"><font
face="Verdana"><font face="Verdana"><font
face="Verdana"><font face="Verdana"><font
face="Verdana"><font face="Verdana">after
<font face="Verdana">January 1 </font></font></font></font></font></font></font>with
what <font face="Verdana">I feel is t<font
face="Verdana">he biggest mistake/poorly guided
part of NEC 201<font face="Verdana">7 </font>690,
and t<font face="Verdana">hat is </font></font></font>690.<font
face="Verdana">12<font face="Verdana">. <font
face="Verdana">We are install<font
face="Verdana">ing two Ou<font
face="Verdana">tback <font face="Verdana">s<font
face="Verdana">ystems with the rem<font
face="Verdana">ote c<font
face="Verdana">ontrolle<font
face="Verdana">d combiner and
even that w<font face="Verdana">on't
comply after January 1 unless
we <font face="Verdana">parallel
more subarrays (There's
safety for you, <font
face="Verdana">lower
voltage<font
face="Verdana">-hi<font
face="Verdana">gher
ampe<font
face="Verdana">rage!).
Thanks for any
insight. <br>
</font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></p>
<p><font face="Verdana"><font face="Verdana"><font
face="Verdana"><font face="Verdana"><font face="Verdana"><font
face="Verdana"><font face="Verdana"><font
face="Verdana"><font face="Verdana"><font
face="Verdana"><font face="Verdana"><font
face="Verdana"><font face="Verdana"><font
face="Verdana"><font
face="Verdana"><font
face="Verdana"><font
face="Verdana"><font
face="Verdana"><font
face="Verdana"><font
face="Verdana"><font
face="Verdana"><font
face="Verdana">Chris</font><br>
</font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></p>
<p><font face="Verdana"><font face="Verdana"><font
face="Verdana"><font face="Verdana"><font face="Verdana"><font
face="Verdana"><font face="Verdana"><font
face="Verdana"><font face="Verdana"><font
face="Verdana"><font face="Verdana"><font
face="Verdana"><font face="Verdana"><font
face="Verdana"><font
face="Verdana"><font
face="Verdana"><font
face="Verdana"><font
face="Verdana"><font
face="Verdana"><font
face="Verdana"><font
face="Verdana"><br>
</font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></p>
<p><font face="Verdana"><font face="Verdana"><font
face="Verdana"><font face="Verdana"><font face="Verdana"><font
face="Verdana"><font face="Verdana"><font
face="Verdana"><font face="Verdana"><font
face="Verdana"><font face="Verdana"><font
face="Verdana"><font face="Verdana"><font
face="Verdana"><font
face="Verdana"><font
face="Verdana"><font
face="Verdana"><font
face="Verdana"><font
face="Verdana"><font
face="Verdana"><font
face="Verdana"><br>
</font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></p>
<p><br>
</p>
<div class="moz-signature">-- <br>
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html;
charset=utf-8">
<div class="moz-signature"><br>
<div class="moz-signature">
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html;
charset=utf-8">
<div class="moz-signature">
<div class="moz-signature">
<div class="moz-signature">
<div class="moz-signature">
<div class="moz-signature">
<meta http-equiv="content-type"
content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
<font size="-1"> Christopher Warfel, PE<br>
ENTECH Engineering, Inc.<br>
PO Box 871, Block Island, RI 02807<br>
(401)466-8978</font><br>
<div class="moz-signature"> <br>
<meta http-equiv="content-type"
content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
<title></title>
<a href="http://entech-engineering.com"
moz-do-not-send="true"><img
moz-do-not-send="false"
src="cid:part1.9BB65F10.1FD45C7A@entech-engineering.com"
alt="EEI logo" class="" height="89"
width="201" border="0"></a> </div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<!--'"--><br>
<fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
<br>
<pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
List Address: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" moz-do-not-send="true">RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>
Change listserver email address & settings:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org" moz-do-not-send="true">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a>
List-Archive: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html" moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html</a>
List rules & etiquette:
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm" moz-do-not-send="true">www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm</a>
Check out or update participant bios:
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.members.re-wrenches.org" moz-do-not-send="true">www.members.re-wrenches.org</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
<br>
<fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
<br>
<pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
List Address: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org">RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>
Change listserver email address & settings:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a>
List-Archive: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html">http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html</a>
List rules & etiquette:
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm">www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm</a>
Check out or update participant bios:
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.members.re-wrenches.org">www.members.re-wrenches.org</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
<div class="moz-signature">-- <br>
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
<div class="moz-signature"><br>
<div class="moz-signature">
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html;
charset=utf-8">
<div class="moz-signature">
<div class="moz-signature">
<div class="moz-signature">
<div class="moz-signature">
<div class="moz-signature">
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html;
charset=utf-8">
<font size="-1"> Christopher Warfel, PE<br>
ENTECH Engineering, Inc.<br>
PO Box 871, Block Island, RI 02807<br>
(401)466-8978</font><br>
<div class="moz-signature"> <br>
<meta http-equiv="content-type"
content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
<title></title>
<a href="http://entech-engineering.com"><img
moz-do-not-send="false"
src="cid:part1.9BB65F10.1FD45C7A@entech-engineering.com"
alt="EEI logo" height="89" width="201"
border="0"></a> </div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</body>
</html>