[RE-wrenches] Battery Backup for Older Enphase Systems

Mon Nov 20 19:03:43 EST 2017

Thanks for the response Dave!

The really good news is that my glitch concerns should no longer be an 
issue based on Nick Soleil's Nov 11th response on this thread.

Enphase now has a grid profile available that provides frequency based 
power curtailment.

I have not yet tried it (project to do so in process), but would 
appreciate any feedback from other Esteemed Wrenches about their 
experiences so far with the new profile.

Best regards,

Gary Willett PE
Icarus Engineering / Solar Services LLC
Irving TX

On 11/20/17 2:40 PM, Dave Tedeyan wrote:
> Gary,
> Sorry for the delay. You had asked me about the Enphase/Sonnen solution,
> copied below.
>
> Since this is a grid tied battery backup situation, the only brute OFF
> situations would be in a grid outage. Once the batteries are charged, the Sonnen continues
> to sell extra
> PV to the grid. And in the case of a power outage, the Sonnen is actually a
> little slow in
> transitioning. It takes around 10 seconds (if I remember correctly) for the
> Sonnen to start
> powering the backed up loads. So no matter what you have for the AC coupled
> PV, you
> will have a small gap in power during an outage.
>
> I hope this answered your question... If not, I'll try to respond quicker
> next time.
> Cheers,
> Dave
>
>
>> DAVE:
>>
>> How does the brute force OFF transitions of the 8K of Enphase AC-coupled
>> micro-inverters affect the AC loads being served by the Sonnen? Are
>> there any noticeable/measurable glitches in the Sonnen's distributed AC?
>>
>> I am assuming the Enphase ON transitions are more graceful because of
>> the UL1741 prove-in period and the individual ramp-up of the individual
>> microinverters.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Gary Willett PE
>> Icarus Engineering & Solar Services LLC
>
> *--*
>
>
> *Dave Tedeyan*
> *Project Engineer*
>
> *Taitem Engineering, PC*
> 10 Verizon Lane, Lansing, NY 14882
> Voice: (607) 930-3481 x6
> www.taitem.com
>
> On Mon, Nov 13, 2017 at 10:52 AM, Drake <
> drake.chamberlin at redwoodalliance.org> wrote:
>
>> Hi Nick,
>>
>> Please send me your information. Currently I am finishing up an Enphase
>> M-250, AC coupled system that is designed to taper charge batteries by
>> dropping out groups of inverters based on battery voltage.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Drake
>>
>> Drake Chamberlin
>> Athens Electric LLC
>> OH License 44810
>> CO License 3773
>> NABCEP Certified Solar PV
>> 740-448-7328
>>
>>
>>
>> At 11:58 PM 11/11/2017, you wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Wrenches,
>>>
>>>
>>> We now have the ability to provide frequency based power curtailment.  If
>>> you are AC Coupling with a battery-based inverter that can fluctuate
>>> frequency to regulate charge on the battery, then we can ramp our output up
>>> and down to regulate the charge more evenly.
>>>
>>>
>>> If you have an AC Coupled system using Enphase microinverters, reach out
>>> to me and I will set your company up with a grid profile that can provide
>>> this option.  Once your company has been granted access to this profile,
>>> you can update the profile using either our Installer Toolkit (ITK) app or
>>> Enlighten.
>>>
>>>
>>> Cordially,
>>>
>>> Nick Soleil
>>>
>>> Enphase Energy | Product Manager, Envoy and IQ Accessories
>>>
>>>
>>> (707) 763-4784 x7267  // office
>>>
>>> (707) 321-2937  // cell
>>>
>>> [Enphase_esig_logo6.jpg]<https://enphase.com/>
>>>
>>>
>>> Energy Evolved<http://enphase.com>™
>>>
>>> Powering What’s Next™ | The Enphase Energy Management System<
>>> http://ow.ly/HbVS3>
>>>
>>>
>>> NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer #03262011-300
>>>
>>> California C10 Licensed Electrician #986315
>>>
>>> Texas Master Electrician #284451
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ________________________________
>>> From: RE-wrenches <re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org> on behalf
>>> of Gary Willett <Gary at IcarusSolarServices.com>
>>> Sent: Saturday, November 11, 2017 3:34 PM
>>> To: re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
>>> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery Backup for Older Enphase Systems
>>>
>>> DAVE:
>>>
>>> How does the brute force OFF transitions of the 8K of Enphase AC-coupled
>>> micro-inverters affect the AC loads being served by the Sonnen? Are
>>> there any noticeable/measurable glitches in the Sonnen's distributed AC?
>>>
>>> I am assuming the Enphase ON transitions are more graceful because of
>>> the UL1741 prove-in period and the individual ramp-up of the individual
>>> microinverters.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> Gary Willett PE
>>> Icarus Engineering & Solar Services LLC
>>>
>>>
>>> On 11/9/17 2:28 PM, Dave Tedeyan wrote:
>>>> You could go with a Sonnen. That is meant to be AC coupled, and its a
>>> very
>>>> simple install.
>>>> Nice piece of equipment, but its expensive. We just installed one that
>>> has
>>>> right around 8kw of Enphase M215 inverter output. So far, no issues.
>>>>
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> Dave
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *--*
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *Dave Tedeyan*
>>>> *Project Engineer*
>>>>
>>>> *Taitem Engineering, PC*
>>>> 10 Verizon Lane, Lansing, NY 14882
>>>> Voice: (607) 930-3481 x6
>>>> www.taitem.com<http://www.taitem.com>
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Nov 9, 2017 at 2:07 PM, John <john at gosolar.co.nz> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> We did one a few months ago using Outback VFX3024e, 1000 a/h battery
>>> bank
>>>>> - basically an Off-Grid system but tied into the switchboard, with
>>> customer
>>>>> nominated circuits dedicated to the Off-Grid system.  The grid is
>>> acting
>>>>> like the backup generator via a relay.
>>>>>
>>>>> The only little hiccup was that when the *generator* was called on, the
>>>>> Off-Grid system had to sync in with the real Grid, it was not
>>> immediate.
>>>>> Apart from that - seems to work O.K.                    John,
>>> GoSolar
>>>>> Ltd,  Christchurch, N.Z.
>>>>>
>>>>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>>>>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org]
>>> On
>>>>> Behalf Of Matt Sherald
>>>>> Sent: Friday, 10 November 2017 3:43 a.m.
>>>>> To: RE-wrenches
>>>>> Subject: [RE-wrenches] Battery Backup for Older Enphase Systems
>>>>>
>>>>> I'd appreciate some ideas as to what backup system designs work well
>>> with
>>>>> the older Enhase equipment (M250/215 era).
>>>>>
>>>>> I've tried this at home with a XW4024, but the frequency rise causes
>>> the
>>>>> lights to flicker and it is awfully unpleasant.
>>>>>
>>>>> A customer of mine has asked about backup to go with an array that uses
>>>>> M250s and this prompted me to write.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks in advance!
>>>>>
>>>>> -Matt
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Matt Sherald
>>>>> PIMBY Energy, LLC
>>>>> NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer®
>>>>> 304-704-5943
>>>>>
>>>>> www.getpimby.blogspot.com<http://www.getpimby.blogspot.com>
>>>>> www.getpimby.com<http://www.getpimby.com>
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