[RE-wrenches] Midnite AIO Generator Functionality

Thu Jul 10 09:09:06 PDT 2025

Yeah, explaining that to an end user isn't ideal. If the generator is
started manually, it should just work... always... without settings changes.

That's the big problem I see here. The only way around that seems to be
using the Grid input, but if that doesn't work with AGS, it's often not a
viable solution.

Jason Szumlanski
Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group
NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP)
Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956
Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208

On Thu, Jul 10, 2025 at 12:04 PM William Bryce via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> The "Force Charge " function will start the charger from the
> generator port or the Grid port (if Grid charging is enabled) It might take
> up to 5 min to qualify the power but you can manually start a charge cycle
> anytime with this function.
>
> On Thu, Jul 10, 2025 at 8:50 AM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches <
> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>
>> Honestly, I'm not sure exactly how it works myself. My understanding is
>> that if the inverter is OFF due to a low voltage disconnect or otherwise,
>> incoming voltage on the generator smart load port will not close the relay
>> and start to charge the battery and power the loads. That defeats
>> the purpose of a dedicated generator input.
>>
>> I do not have a workaround. On one site, I have the battery BMS
>> controlling generator start/stop, with the generator on the AIO's grid
>> inputs. This is less than ideal, but with no closed-loop communication with
>> the inverter for this battery, it's the best option right now. I would
>> love to have the AIO start the generator at a voltage that is close to
>> 20%, but then also have the battery AGS start the generator as a failsafe
>> if the SOC becomes dangerously low (if the inverter doesn't trigger the AGS
>> based on voltage early enough).
>>
>>
>> Jason Szumlanski
>> Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group
>> NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP)
>> Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956
>> Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Jul 10, 2025 at 8:19 AM Mac Lewis via RE-wrenches <
>> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Jason,
>>>
>>> This seems like a big problem.  Curious if you have found a manual work
>>> around for this?
>>>
>>> Is it possible to force the inverter on, even briefly to start accepting
>>> a charge from the generator?  It would be nice if the gen relay would latch
>>> to incoming voltage but the hardware may not allow that.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jul 9, 2025 at 5:40 PM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches <
>>> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Is there any update on functionality to use the AIO's AGS when the
>>>> generator is on the Grid input?
>>>>
>>>> This is really needed. The fact that the generator smart load input
>>>> doesn't turn the inverters on and charge the batteries when a generator is
>>>> present after a low voltage cutout is really problematic.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Jason Szumlanski
>>>> Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group
>>>> NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP)
>>>> Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956
>>>> Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, May 14, 2025, 11:28 AM William Bryce via RE-wrenches <
>>>> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> When using the AC input the substitute to use the AGS is to use an
>>>>> external AGS Start relay.  There are many  customers using big
>>>>> generators through the 100 Amp input with no issues. There is a request to
>>>>> modify the AGS to work with the 100 amp AC in.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, May 14, 2025 at 11:09 AM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches <
>>>>> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Thank you for this information. Regarding the statement, "You can
>>>>>> fully use the 100 Amp AC input for Generator input, and it is available at
>>>>>> all times, but you will lose the AGS..."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I don't think MNS tech support knows this. I'm pretty sure Rick told
>>>>>> me no, and I know that Ronald unequivocally told me it was not allowed.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What if the generator was connected to the grid input, but you still
>>>>>> programmed the generator Smart Load output for a generator, would the AGS
>>>>>> work in that case? Or if there is "Grid" voltage when the generator starts,
>>>>>> would that cause the AGS to disengage and then the process would repeat
>>>>>> itself in a loop?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Jason Szumlanski
>>>>>> Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group
>>>>>> NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP)
>>>>>> Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956
>>>>>> Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Wed, May 14, 2025, 10:57 AM William Bryce <
>>>>>> wlbryce at pineridgeproducts.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>  Everyone, Please forgive MNS for not promptly responding to the
>>>>>>> questions.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>  Midnite Solar  does not currently have an official poster for the
>>>>>>> Wrenches List. Per the rules of the list, MNS is working to get a new Rep
>>>>>>> to work with the installers as we always have.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> To address the questions that were fielded:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The solar array will continue to power the system and dark start the
>>>>>>> inverter if needed.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If you use the machine you can test. Just turn off ALL the Power,
>>>>>>> including the DC in from the battery. The screen will be dark and when you
>>>>>>> turn on the PV input the machine will go into standby.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If the machine shuts down due to a LVCO then it will auto restart
>>>>>>> (Via PV input) UNLESS the  "Min Initiation Startup  (off Grid)" setting is
>>>>>>> not reached. It will charge the battery until that setting is reached then
>>>>>>> turn on the inverter.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If the Shutdown was because of a PV Insulation *Fault* or some
>>>>>>> other critical ESS fault it will not restart until that issue is corrected.
>>>>>>> You can blame that on the UL code writers as it is REQUIRED to get the UL
>>>>>>> certifications.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> We also do full generator passthrough just like all other AIO's. And
>>>>>>> yes as pointed out several times on the forum the relay for the
>>>>>>> generator is not closed, as the inverter qualifies the generator before it
>>>>>>> closes. The reason is that we can use the PV input and the generator at the
>>>>>>> same time.  But, it is monitored so you do not blow us the generator if the
>>>>>>> PV exceeds the Gen input and the load or charging drops. Is this perfect?
>>>>>>> No, it needs some work. The current AGS is basic and needs work.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You can fully use the 100 Amp AC input for Generator input, and it
>>>>>>> is available at all times, but you will lose the AGS.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Everyone at MNS is taking notes of all the issues with the Current
>>>>>>> AIO's (all brands including our AIO), and the state of China made / China
>>>>>>> supported inverters.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> MNS will be looking to reset the market soon with a New, US Made,
>>>>>>> Designed, and supported AIO (not just assembled from China parts like some
>>>>>>> others with the same firmware). Using proven SiC Fet technology (Rosie
>>>>>>> inverter technology). With a full set of controls for LA batteries, and
>>>>>>> Generator, just like in the old days. Touch Screen programming, and self
>>>>>>> hosted web server remote accesses and control, not data sent to the cloud.
>>>>>>> If you worry about support, and security, then this inverter will address
>>>>>>> these needs. All the firmware is written in house, PCB boards populated
>>>>>>> inhouse, and components origins verified.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> We will not say more because of MNS bad reputation of *announcing
>>>>>>> and not delivering*, so in the next 6 months, we will have
>>>>>>> something great to offer.  We are going back to our Roots (Trace,
>>>>>>> Outback, and Magnum,  can all be linked back to this team).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On behalf of Midnite Solar
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Wed, May 14, 2025 at 9:56 AM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches <
>>>>>>> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> That is the idea, but the generator startup is not guaranteed
>>>>>>>> (i.e.out of fuel, battery dead, etc). It's not a failsafe solution.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The AIO really needs a dedicated GEN input that is not controlled
>>>>>>>> with a NO relay. Or let us use the Grid input for the generator. The
>>>>>>>> generator input logic is severely flawed. If there is an AC source, it
>>>>>>>> should be able to charge the battery without user intervention.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Jason Szumlanski
>>>>>>>> Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group
>>>>>>>> NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP)
>>>>>>>> Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956
>>>>>>>> Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Mon, May 12, 2025, 5:25 PM Dave Tedeyan via RE-wrenches <
>>>>>>>> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Jason,
>>>>>>>>> Cant you just make the AGS turn on the generator before the
>>>>>>>>> inverter gets to the LBCO? Maybe this is more difficult if you do not have
>>>>>>>>> closed loop comms and the SOC drifts. I am just working through my first
>>>>>>>>> Midnite AIO setup now, so I cannot speak to the nuances of how it will work
>>>>>>>>> with that yet.
>>>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>>> Dave
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Mon, May 12, 2025 at 4:01 PM Ray Walters via RE-wrenches <
>>>>>>>>> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> That has not been my experience.  I have had to manually reboot
>>>>>>>>>> Solark systems numerous time off grid.  If there is snow on the array or
>>>>>>>>>> otherwise low PV output for a few days, the no load draw of the BMS then
>>>>>>>>>> takes the battery voltage low enough to shut the battery off.   This would
>>>>>>>>>> be a different situation with a knowledgeable owner onsite full time, but
>>>>>>>>>> for vacation properties, it will go into complete shut down, not coming
>>>>>>>>>> back.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Which gets into the manual and tech support for Solark:  its
>>>>>>>>>> really not clear what the different settings do, and how they interact.
>>>>>>>>>> I'm sure there are engineers that know, but they aren't at Tech support. At
>>>>>>>>>> least you can change the programming on the touch screen, and you don't
>>>>>>>>>> have to get a quirky app up off grid to do basic changes.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> BTW, what happens when the developers quit keeping the App
>>>>>>>>>> updated, 10 years from now, and you can't access the programming?  Planned
>>>>>>>>>> Obsolescence?  That 33 yr old Trace Inverter is still doing its job.....
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Ray Walters
>>>>>>>>>> Remote Solar
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 5/12/2025 11:33 AM, MDElectricSolar via RE-wrenches wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> We have been using the Solark inverter for GTBB and off grid
>>>>>>>>>> clients. In the case of low battery cut out the solar does stay alive in
>>>>>>>>>> the background and will recharge the batteries when the sun comes out the
>>>>>>>>>> next day and turn itself back on and provide AC power output.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Michael D Nelson
>>>>>>>>>> MD Electric & Solar, Inc.
>>>>>>>>>> 707-684-0064 mobile
>>>>>>>>>> 707-884-1862 office
>>>>>>>>>> www.mdelectricsolar.com
>>>>>>>>>> www.facebook.com/mdelectricandsolar
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On May 12, 2025, at 10:13 AM, Ray Walters via RE-wrenches
>>>>>>>>>> <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>
>>>>>>>>>> <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> So the bypass switch gets the house power on, and I too always
>>>>>>>>>> recommend a hard bypass switch. However, you still need a 48 v power supply
>>>>>>>>>> to get the battery system back up, and that's becoming a serious pain in my
>>>>>>>>>> aging backside.  Until AIOs with Li+ batteries, lead acid would have enough
>>>>>>>>>> voltage to get the charge controller to come back on, and eventually the
>>>>>>>>>> customer could get the inverter back on too.  No special trip out.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> We need an independent circuit that would sense array voltage,
>>>>>>>>>> and wake up the battery, so it could take a charge: a backup battery for
>>>>>>>>>> the offgrid battery.  Without that, AIOs and Li+ batteries are not self
>>>>>>>>>> healing like Lead Acid.  We are going backwards fast, but with an amazing
>>>>>>>>>> amount of new Chinese technology driving the jalopy in reverse.  (Danger
>>>>>>>>>> Will Robinson)
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Ray Walters
>>>>>>>>>> Remote Solar
>>>>>>>>>> On 5/12/2025 10:54 AM, Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> We always recommend a transfer switch to bypass the inverter and
>>>>>>>>>> send generator power to the loads. Most clients take us up on it. For
>>>>>>>>>> retrofits, sometimes there can be space limitations, however.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> As for the function of the AIO, there is no integrated mechanical
>>>>>>>>>> bypass, and since there is an internal relay controlling the
>>>>>>>>>> generator input (or smart load output on that breaker), I think the default
>>>>>>>>>> function is for the relay to open when the inverter turns off. AC voltage
>>>>>>>>>> on the load side of the breaker does not close the relay and turn the
>>>>>>>>>> inverter back on automatically.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Jason Szumlanski
>>>>>>>>>> Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group
>>>>>>>>>> NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP)
>>>>>>>>>> Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956
>>>>>>>>>> Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, May 12, 2025 at 9:49 AM Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar via
>>>>>>>>>> RE-wrenches <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> All sounds wrong to me. Call Midnite.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Typically there is a AC bypass mechanical switch that allows the
>>>>>>>>>>> gen to bypass the inverter and power loads.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> *Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
>>>>>>>>>>> "we go where powerlines don't"
>>>>>>>>>>>    <http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/>https://offgridsolar1.com/ <https://offgridsolar1.com/>  <http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/>
>>>>>>>>>>> e-mail  offgridsolar at sti.net <offgridsolar at sti.net>
>>>>>>>>>>> text 209 813 0060*
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On 2025-05-12 9:29 am, Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Maybe I'm missing something, but it seems like there is a flaw
>>>>>>>>>>> in the logic for how generator integration works with this product. Unlike
>>>>>>>>>>> some of the other AIOs, you can't put the generator on the Grid input in an
>>>>>>>>>>> off-grid scenario. You have to use the Generator smart load breaker, which
>>>>>>>>>>> isn't a dedicated generator input, but a programmable circuit. This is
>>>>>>>>>>> problematic because it seemingly has a normally open internal relay that
>>>>>>>>>>> closes only when the inverter is ON. At least, that's how it seems to work
>>>>>>>>>>> in my limited experience.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Why is this a problem? If the battery capacity drops below the
>>>>>>>>>>> low voltage cutoff, the inverter turns off. You have to turn the inverter
>>>>>>>>>>> ON for the generator relay to close so you can charge the battery, but
>>>>>>>>>>> since the battery is too low, the inverter won't turn on. You would have to
>>>>>>>>>>> reprogram the inverter to drop the cutoff voltage/SOC below the current
>>>>>>>>>>> battery state. For people who do not want to use AGS, or if AGS fails to
>>>>>>>>>>> start the generator for any reason, getting the generator to charge the
>>>>>>>>>>> battery manually is no easy task.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Moreover, turning the generator on manually when the inverter is
>>>>>>>>>>> in an OFF state will not pass power to the loads, and will not turn
>>>>>>>>>>> the inverter ON automatically. You have to get the inverter turned ON
>>>>>>>>>>> somehow so that the generator power can pass through to the loads. And
>>>>>>>>>>> since the startup sequence for this inverter is very quirky, non-intuitive,
>>>>>>>>>>> and unreliable, that makes the problem even worse. I'm not sure if you can
>>>>>>>>>>> even turn the inverter ON when there is generator input and the battery is
>>>>>>>>>>> too low. I don't think you can because the relay is open and the inverter
>>>>>>>>>>> doesn't even see generator voltage when it is in an OFF state.
>>>>>>>>>>> This seems like a serious oversight and a reason to go with one
>>>>>>>>>>> of the other AIOs on the market. I believe the Sol-Ark 15K and EG4 18kPV
>>>>>>>>>>> will both immediately power loads and start charging when the generator is
>>>>>>>>>>> on, regardless of whether the generator is connected to the Grid or
>>>>>>>>>>> Generator input. Any AC input immediately passes through to the loads. This
>>>>>>>>>>> is because those inverters stay "on" when a low battery condition is met,
>>>>>>>>>>> and they simply stop using the battery to invert power if the battery
>>>>>>>>>>> conditions do not allow it, based on the settings.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> The logic of the Midnite AIOs turning "off" when battery cutoff
>>>>>>>>>>> is met and opening the generator relay doesn't make sense to me. Am I wrong
>>>>>>>>>>> about how this works?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Jason Szumlanski
>>>>>>>>>>> Principal Solar Designer
>>>>>>>>>>> Florida Solar Design Group
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Change listserver email address & settings:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't
>>>>>>>>>>> work, try the other:
>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> List rules & etiquette:
>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Check out or update participant bios:
>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Change listserver email address & settings:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't
>>>>>>>>>>> work, try the other:
>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> List rules & etiquette:
>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Check out or update participant bios:
>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Change listserver email address & settings:http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other:https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> List rules & etiquette:http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Check out or update participant bios:http://www.members.re-wrenches.org
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Change listserver email address & settings:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work,
>>>>>>>>>> try the other:
>>>>>>>>>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/
>>>>>>>>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> List rules & etiquette:
>>>>>>>>>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Check out or update participant bios:
>>>>>>>>>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Change listserver email address & settings:http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other:https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> List rules & etiquette:http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Check out or update participant bios:http://www.members.re-wrenches.org
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Change listserver email address & settings:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work,
>>>>>>>>>> try the other:
>>>>>>>>>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/
>>>>>>>>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> List rules & etiquette:
>>>>>>>>>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Check out or update participant bios:
>>>>>>>>>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Change listserver email address & settings:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work,
>>>>>>>>> try the other:
>>>>>>>>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/
>>>>>>>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> List rules & etiquette:
>>>>>>>>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Check out or update participant bios:
>>>>>>>>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Change listserver email address & settings:
>>>>>>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work,
>>>>>>>> try the other:
>>>>>>>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/
>>>>>>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> List rules & etiquette:
>>>>>>>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Check out or update participant bios:
>>>>>>>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Change listserver email address & settings:
>>>>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try
>>>>>> the other:
>>>>>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/
>>>>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>> List rules & etiquette:
>>>>>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Check out or update participant bios:
>>>>>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>>>>>
>>>>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org
>>>>>
>>>>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
>>>>>
>>>>> Change listserver email address & settings:
>>>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>>>>>
>>>>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try
>>>>> the other:
>>>>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/
>>>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>>>>>
>>>>> List rules & etiquette:
>>>>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>>>>>
>>>>> Check out or update participant bios:
>>>>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>>>>
>>>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org
>>>>
>>>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
>>>>
>>>> Change listserver email address & settings:
>>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>>>>
>>>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try
>>>> the other:
>>>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/
>>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>>>>
>>>> List rules & etiquette:
>>>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>>>>
>>>> Check out or update participant bios:
>>>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Mac Lewis
>>>
>>> *"Yo solo sé que no sé nada." -Sócrates*
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>>>
>>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org
>>>
>>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
>>>
>>> Change listserver email address & settings:
>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>>>
>>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try
>>> the other:
>>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/
>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>>>
>>> List rules & etiquette:
>>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>>>
>>> Check out or update participant bios:
>>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>>
>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org
>>
>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
>>
>> Change listserver email address & settings:
>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>>
>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the
>> other:
>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/
>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>>
>> List rules & etiquette:
>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>>
>> Check out or update participant bios:
>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org
>>
>> _______________________________________________
> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>
> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org
>
> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
>
> Change listserver email address & settings:
> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>
> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the
> other:
> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/
> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>
> List rules & etiquette:
> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>
> Check out or update participant bios:
> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org/attachments/20250710/3bcdfa59/attachment.htm>