[RE-wrenches] Midnite AIO Generator Functionality

Thu Jul 10 09:03:42 PDT 2025

The "Force Charge " function will start the charger from the generator port
or the Grid port (if Grid charging is enabled) It might take up to 5 min to
qualify the power but you can manually start a charge cycle anytime with
this function.

On Thu, Jul 10, 2025 at 8:50 AM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> Honestly, I'm not sure exactly how it works myself. My understanding is
> that if the inverter is OFF due to a low voltage disconnect or otherwise,
> incoming voltage on the generator smart load port will not close the relay
> and start to charge the battery and power the loads. That defeats
> the purpose of a dedicated generator input.
>
> I do not have a workaround. On one site, I have the battery BMS
> controlling generator start/stop, with the generator on the AIO's grid
> inputs. This is less than ideal, but with no closed-loop communication with
> the inverter for this battery, it's the best option right now. I would
> love to have the AIO start the generator at a voltage that is close to
> 20%, but then also have the battery AGS start the generator as a failsafe
> if the SOC becomes dangerously low (if the inverter doesn't trigger the AGS
> based on voltage early enough).
>
>
> Jason Szumlanski
> Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group
> NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP)
> Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956
> Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208
>
>
> On Thu, Jul 10, 2025 at 8:19 AM Mac Lewis via RE-wrenches <
> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>
>> Hi Jason,
>>
>> This seems like a big problem.  Curious if you have found a manual work
>> around for this?
>>
>> Is it possible to force the inverter on, even briefly to start accepting
>> a charge from the generator?  It would be nice if the gen relay would latch
>> to incoming voltage but the hardware may not allow that.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Jul 9, 2025 at 5:40 PM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches <
>> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>>
>>> Is there any update on functionality to use the AIO's AGS when the
>>> generator is on the Grid input?
>>>
>>> This is really needed. The fact that the generator smart load input
>>> doesn't turn the inverters on and charge the batteries when a generator is
>>> present after a low voltage cutout is really problematic.
>>>
>>>
>>> Jason Szumlanski
>>> Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group
>>> NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP)
>>> Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956
>>> Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208
>>>
>>> On Wed, May 14, 2025, 11:28 AM William Bryce via RE-wrenches <
>>> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> When using the AC input the substitute to use the AGS is to use an
>>>> external AGS Start relay.  There are many  customers using big
>>>> generators through the 100 Amp input with no issues. There is a request to
>>>> modify the AGS to work with the 100 amp AC in.
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, May 14, 2025 at 11:09 AM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches <
>>>> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Thank you for this information. Regarding the statement, "You can
>>>>> fully use the 100 Amp AC input for Generator input, and it is available at
>>>>> all times, but you will lose the AGS..."
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't think MNS tech support knows this. I'm pretty sure Rick told
>>>>> me no, and I know that Ronald unequivocally told me it was not allowed.
>>>>>
>>>>> What if the generator was connected to the grid input, but you still
>>>>> programmed the generator Smart Load output for a generator, would the AGS
>>>>> work in that case? Or if there is "Grid" voltage when the generator starts,
>>>>> would that cause the AGS to disengage and then the process would repeat
>>>>> itself in a loop?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Jason Szumlanski
>>>>> Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group
>>>>> NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP)
>>>>> Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956
>>>>> Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, May 14, 2025, 10:57 AM William Bryce <
>>>>> wlbryce at pineridgeproducts.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>  Everyone, Please forgive MNS for not promptly responding to the
>>>>>> questions.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  Midnite Solar  does not currently have an official poster for the
>>>>>> Wrenches List. Per the rules of the list, MNS is working to get a new Rep
>>>>>> to work with the installers as we always have.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> To address the questions that were fielded:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The solar array will continue to power the system and dark start the
>>>>>> inverter if needed.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If you use the machine you can test. Just turn off ALL the Power,
>>>>>> including the DC in from the battery. The screen will be dark and when you
>>>>>> turn on the PV input the machine will go into standby.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If the machine shuts down due to a LVCO then it will auto restart
>>>>>> (Via PV input) UNLESS the  "Min Initiation Startup  (off Grid)" setting is
>>>>>> not reached. It will charge the battery until that setting is reached then
>>>>>> turn on the inverter.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If the Shutdown was because of a PV Insulation *Fault* or some other
>>>>>> critical ESS fault it will not restart until that issue is corrected. You
>>>>>> can blame that on the UL code writers as it is REQUIRED to get the UL
>>>>>> certifications.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We also do full generator passthrough just like all other AIO's. And
>>>>>> yes as pointed out several times on the forum the relay for the
>>>>>> generator is not closed, as the inverter qualifies the generator before it
>>>>>> closes. The reason is that we can use the PV input and the generator at the
>>>>>> same time.  But, it is monitored so you do not blow us the generator if the
>>>>>> PV exceeds the Gen input and the load or charging drops. Is this perfect?
>>>>>> No, it needs some work. The current AGS is basic and needs work.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You can fully use the 100 Amp AC input for Generator input, and it is
>>>>>> available at all times, but you will lose the AGS.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Everyone at MNS is taking notes of all the issues with the Current
>>>>>> AIO's (all brands including our AIO), and the state of China made / China
>>>>>> supported inverters.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> MNS will be looking to reset the market soon with a New, US Made,
>>>>>> Designed, and supported AIO (not just assembled from China parts like some
>>>>>> others with the same firmware). Using proven SiC Fet technology (Rosie
>>>>>> inverter technology). With a full set of controls for LA batteries, and
>>>>>> Generator, just like in the old days. Touch Screen programming, and self
>>>>>> hosted web server remote accesses and control, not data sent to the cloud.
>>>>>> If you worry about support, and security, then this inverter will address
>>>>>> these needs. All the firmware is written in house, PCB boards populated
>>>>>> inhouse, and components origins verified.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We will not say more because of MNS bad reputation of *announcing
>>>>>> and not delivering*, so in the next 6 months, we will have something
>>>>>> great to offer.  We are going back to our Roots (Trace, Outback, and
>>>>>> Magnum,  can all be linked back to this team).
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On behalf of Midnite Solar
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Wed, May 14, 2025 at 9:56 AM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches <
>>>>>> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> That is the idea, but the generator startup is not guaranteed
>>>>>>> (i.e.out of fuel, battery dead, etc). It's not a failsafe solution.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The AIO really needs a dedicated GEN input that is not controlled
>>>>>>> with a NO relay. Or let us use the Grid input for the generator. The
>>>>>>> generator input logic is severely flawed. If there is an AC source, it
>>>>>>> should be able to charge the battery without user intervention.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Jason Szumlanski
>>>>>>> Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group
>>>>>>> NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP)
>>>>>>> Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956
>>>>>>> Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Mon, May 12, 2025, 5:25 PM Dave Tedeyan via RE-wrenches <
>>>>>>> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Jason,
>>>>>>>> Cant you just make the AGS turn on the generator before the
>>>>>>>> inverter gets to the LBCO? Maybe this is more difficult if you do not have
>>>>>>>> closed loop comms and the SOC drifts. I am just working through my first
>>>>>>>> Midnite AIO setup now, so I cannot speak to the nuances of how it will work
>>>>>>>> with that yet.
>>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>> Dave
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Mon, May 12, 2025 at 4:01 PM Ray Walters via RE-wrenches <
>>>>>>>> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> That has not been my experience.  I have had to manually reboot
>>>>>>>>> Solark systems numerous time off grid.  If there is snow on the array or
>>>>>>>>> otherwise low PV output for a few days, the no load draw of the BMS then
>>>>>>>>> takes the battery voltage low enough to shut the battery off.   This would
>>>>>>>>> be a different situation with a knowledgeable owner onsite full time, but
>>>>>>>>> for vacation properties, it will go into complete shut down, not coming
>>>>>>>>> back.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Which gets into the manual and tech support for Solark:  its
>>>>>>>>> really not clear what the different settings do, and how they interact.
>>>>>>>>> I'm sure there are engineers that know, but they aren't at Tech support. At
>>>>>>>>> least you can change the programming on the touch screen, and you don't
>>>>>>>>> have to get a quirky app up off grid to do basic changes.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> BTW, what happens when the developers quit keeping the App
>>>>>>>>> updated, 10 years from now, and you can't access the programming?  Planned
>>>>>>>>> Obsolescence?  That 33 yr old Trace Inverter is still doing its job.....
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Ray Walters
>>>>>>>>> Remote Solar
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 5/12/2025 11:33 AM, MDElectricSolar via RE-wrenches wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> We have been using the Solark inverter for GTBB and off grid
>>>>>>>>> clients. In the case of low battery cut out the solar does stay alive in
>>>>>>>>> the background and will recharge the batteries when the sun comes out the
>>>>>>>>> next day and turn itself back on and provide AC power output.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Michael D Nelson
>>>>>>>>> MD Electric & Solar, Inc.
>>>>>>>>> 707-684-0064 mobile
>>>>>>>>> 707-884-1862 office
>>>>>>>>> www.mdelectricsolar.com
>>>>>>>>> www.facebook.com/mdelectricandsolar
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On May 12, 2025, at 10:13 AM, Ray Walters via RE-wrenches
>>>>>>>>> <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>
>>>>>>>>> <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> So the bypass switch gets the house power on, and I too always
>>>>>>>>> recommend a hard bypass switch. However, you still need a 48 v power supply
>>>>>>>>> to get the battery system back up, and that's becoming a serious pain in my
>>>>>>>>> aging backside.  Until AIOs with Li+ batteries, lead acid would have enough
>>>>>>>>> voltage to get the charge controller to come back on, and eventually the
>>>>>>>>> customer could get the inverter back on too.  No special trip out.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> We need an independent circuit that would sense array voltage, and
>>>>>>>>> wake up the battery, so it could take a charge: a backup battery for the
>>>>>>>>> offgrid battery.  Without that, AIOs and Li+ batteries are not self healing
>>>>>>>>> like Lead Acid.  We are going backwards fast, but with an amazing amount of
>>>>>>>>> new Chinese technology driving the jalopy in reverse.  (Danger Will
>>>>>>>>> Robinson)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Ray Walters
>>>>>>>>> Remote Solar
>>>>>>>>> On 5/12/2025 10:54 AM, Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> We always recommend a transfer switch to bypass the inverter and
>>>>>>>>> send generator power to the loads. Most clients take us up on it. For
>>>>>>>>> retrofits, sometimes there can be space limitations, however.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> As for the function of the AIO, there is no integrated mechanical
>>>>>>>>> bypass, and since there is an internal relay controlling the
>>>>>>>>> generator input (or smart load output on that breaker), I think the default
>>>>>>>>> function is for the relay to open when the inverter turns off. AC voltage
>>>>>>>>> on the load side of the breaker does not close the relay and turn the
>>>>>>>>> inverter back on automatically.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Jason Szumlanski
>>>>>>>>> Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group
>>>>>>>>> NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP)
>>>>>>>>> Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956
>>>>>>>>> Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Mon, May 12, 2025 at 9:49 AM Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar via
>>>>>>>>> RE-wrenches <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> All sounds wrong to me. Call Midnite.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Typically there is a AC bypass mechanical switch that allows the
>>>>>>>>>> gen to bypass the inverter and power loads.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> *Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
>>>>>>>>>> "we go where powerlines don't"
>>>>>>>>>>    <http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/>https://offgridsolar1.com/ <https://offgridsolar1.com/>  <http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/>
>>>>>>>>>> e-mail  offgridsolar at sti.net <offgridsolar at sti.net>
>>>>>>>>>> text 209 813 0060*
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 2025-05-12 9:29 am, Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Maybe I'm missing something, but it seems like there is a flaw in
>>>>>>>>>> the logic for how generator integration works with this product. Unlike
>>>>>>>>>> some of the other AIOs, you can't put the generator on the Grid input in an
>>>>>>>>>> off-grid scenario. You have to use the Generator smart load breaker, which
>>>>>>>>>> isn't a dedicated generator input, but a programmable circuit. This is
>>>>>>>>>> problematic because it seemingly has a normally open internal relay that
>>>>>>>>>> closes only when the inverter is ON. At least, that's how it seems to work
>>>>>>>>>> in my limited experience.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Why is this a problem? If the battery capacity drops below the
>>>>>>>>>> low voltage cutoff, the inverter turns off. You have to turn the inverter
>>>>>>>>>> ON for the generator relay to close so you can charge the battery, but
>>>>>>>>>> since the battery is too low, the inverter won't turn on. You would have to
>>>>>>>>>> reprogram the inverter to drop the cutoff voltage/SOC below the current
>>>>>>>>>> battery state. For people who do not want to use AGS, or if AGS fails to
>>>>>>>>>> start the generator for any reason, getting the generator to charge the
>>>>>>>>>> battery manually is no easy task.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Moreover, turning the generator on manually when the inverter is
>>>>>>>>>> in an OFF state will not pass power to the loads, and will not turn
>>>>>>>>>> the inverter ON automatically. You have to get the inverter turned ON
>>>>>>>>>> somehow so that the generator power can pass through to the loads. And
>>>>>>>>>> since the startup sequence for this inverter is very quirky, non-intuitive,
>>>>>>>>>> and unreliable, that makes the problem even worse. I'm not sure if you can
>>>>>>>>>> even turn the inverter ON when there is generator input and the battery is
>>>>>>>>>> too low. I don't think you can because the relay is open and the inverter
>>>>>>>>>> doesn't even see generator voltage when it is in an OFF state.
>>>>>>>>>> This seems like a serious oversight and a reason to go with one
>>>>>>>>>> of the other AIOs on the market. I believe the Sol-Ark 15K and EG4 18kPV
>>>>>>>>>> will both immediately power loads and start charging when the generator is
>>>>>>>>>> on, regardless of whether the generator is connected to the Grid or
>>>>>>>>>> Generator input. Any AC input immediately passes through to the loads. This
>>>>>>>>>> is because those inverters stay "on" when a low battery condition is met,
>>>>>>>>>> and they simply stop using the battery to invert power if the battery
>>>>>>>>>> conditions do not allow it, based on the settings.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The logic of the Midnite AIOs turning "off" when battery cutoff
>>>>>>>>>> is met and opening the generator relay doesn't make sense to me. Am I wrong
>>>>>>>>>> about how this works?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Jason Szumlanski
>>>>>>>>>> Principal Solar Designer
>>>>>>>>>> Florida Solar Design Group
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
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>> --
>>
>>
>>
>> Mac Lewis
>>
>> *"Yo solo sé que no sé nada." -Sócrates*
>> _______________________________________________
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> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
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> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the
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