[RE-wrenches] Midnite AIO Generator Functionality

Wed May 14 09:18:45 PDT 2025

The Discover Link II has AGS capability (much better than typical AIO
inverters), but it can only pair with Discover AES Rackmount and Helios.

On Wed, May 14, 2025 at 12:08 PM William Bryce via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> I "have been told" that you can do it with a Victron Cerbo. But, I have
> not tried it personally. I'm sure a Victron expert can chime in. I
> understand that the Cerbo can trigger a dry contact to serve as the  Start
> stop. I monitor the AIO with a Cerbo but have not used it to control
> anything based on reported SOC.
>
> On Wed, May 14, 2025 at 11:52 AM Jason Szumlanski <
> jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com> wrote:
>
>> Great info.
>>
>> Are there any AGS out there that can communicate with Pytes or other
>> batteries via RS-485 and trigger based on battery SOC rather than using raw
>> voltage? That would solve one issue.
>>
>>
>> Jason Szumlanski
>> Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group
>> NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP)
>> Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956
>> Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208
>>
>> On Wed, May 14, 2025, 11:28 AM William Bryce via RE-wrenches <
>> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>>
>>> When using the AC input the substitute to use the AGS is to use an
>>> external AGS Start relay.  There are many  customers using big
>>> generators through the 100 Amp input with no issues. There is a request to
>>> modify the AGS to work with the 100 amp AC in.
>>>
>>> On Wed, May 14, 2025 at 11:09 AM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches <
>>> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Thank you for this information. Regarding the statement, "You can fully
>>>> use the 100 Amp AC input for Generator input, and it is available at all
>>>> times, but you will lose the AGS..."
>>>>
>>>> I don't think MNS tech support knows this. I'm pretty sure Rick told me
>>>> no, and I know that Ronald unequivocally told me it was not allowed.
>>>>
>>>> What if the generator was connected to the grid input, but you still
>>>> programmed the generator Smart Load output for a generator, would the AGS
>>>> work in that case? Or if there is "Grid" voltage when the generator starts,
>>>> would that cause the AGS to disengage and then the process would repeat
>>>> itself in a loop?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Jason Szumlanski
>>>> Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group
>>>> NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP)
>>>> Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956
>>>> Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, May 14, 2025, 10:57 AM William Bryce <
>>>> wlbryce at pineridgeproducts.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>  Everyone, Please forgive MNS for not promptly responding to the
>>>>> questions.
>>>>>
>>>>>  Midnite Solar  does not currently have an official poster for the
>>>>> Wrenches List. Per the rules of the list, MNS is working to get a new Rep
>>>>> to work with the installers as we always have.
>>>>>
>>>>> To address the questions that were fielded:
>>>>>
>>>>> The solar array will continue to power the system and dark start the
>>>>> inverter if needed.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> If you use the machine you can test. Just turn off ALL the Power,
>>>>> including the DC in from the battery. The screen will be dark and when you
>>>>> turn on the PV input the machine will go into standby.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> If the machine shuts down due to a LVCO then it will auto restart (Via
>>>>> PV input) UNLESS the  "Min Initiation Startup  (off Grid)" setting is not
>>>>> reached. It will charge the battery until that setting is reached then turn
>>>>> on the inverter.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> If the Shutdown was because of a PV Insulation *Fault* or some other
>>>>> critical ESS fault it will not restart until that issue is corrected. You
>>>>> can blame that on the UL code writers as it is REQUIRED to get the UL
>>>>> certifications.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> We also do full generator passthrough just like all other AIO's. And
>>>>> yes as pointed out several times on the forum the relay for the
>>>>> generator is not closed, as the inverter qualifies the generator before it
>>>>> closes. The reason is that we can use the PV input and the generator at the
>>>>> same time.  But, it is monitored so you do not blow us the generator if the
>>>>> PV exceeds the Gen input and the load or charging drops. Is this perfect?
>>>>> No, it needs some work. The current AGS is basic and needs work.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> You can fully use the 100 Amp AC input for Generator input, and it is
>>>>> available at all times, but you will lose the AGS.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Everyone at MNS is taking notes of all the issues with the Current
>>>>> AIO's (all brands including our AIO), and the state of China made / China
>>>>> supported inverters.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> MNS will be looking to reset the market soon with a New, US Made,
>>>>> Designed, and supported AIO (not just assembled from China parts like some
>>>>> others with the same firmware). Using proven SiC Fet technology (Rosie
>>>>> inverter technology). With a full set of controls for LA batteries, and
>>>>> Generator, just like in the old days. Touch Screen programming, and self
>>>>> hosted web server remote accesses and control, not data sent to the cloud.
>>>>> If you worry about support, and security, then this inverter will address
>>>>> these needs. All the firmware is written in house, PCB boards populated
>>>>> inhouse, and components origins verified.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> We will not say more because of MNS bad reputation of *announcing and
>>>>> not delivering*, so in the next 6 months, we will have something
>>>>> great to offer.  We are going back to our Roots (Trace, Outback, and
>>>>> Magnum,  can all be linked back to this team).
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On behalf of Midnite Solar
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, May 14, 2025 at 9:56 AM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches <
>>>>> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> That is the idea, but the generator startup is not guaranteed
>>>>>> (i.e.out of fuel, battery dead, etc). It's not a failsafe solution.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The AIO really needs a dedicated GEN input that is not controlled
>>>>>> with a NO relay. Or let us use the Grid input for the generator. The
>>>>>> generator input logic is severely flawed. If there is an AC source, it
>>>>>> should be able to charge the battery without user intervention.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Jason Szumlanski
>>>>>> Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group
>>>>>> NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP)
>>>>>> Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956
>>>>>> Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Mon, May 12, 2025, 5:25 PM Dave Tedeyan via RE-wrenches <
>>>>>> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Jason,
>>>>>>> Cant you just make the AGS turn on the generator before the inverter
>>>>>>> gets to the LBCO? Maybe this is more difficult if you do not have closed
>>>>>>> loop comms and the SOC drifts. I am just working through my first Midnite
>>>>>>> AIO setup now, so I cannot speak to the nuances of how it will work with
>>>>>>> that yet.
>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>> Dave
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Mon, May 12, 2025 at 4:01 PM Ray Walters via RE-wrenches <
>>>>>>> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> That has not been my experience.  I have had to manually reboot
>>>>>>>> Solark systems numerous time off grid.  If there is snow on the array or
>>>>>>>> otherwise low PV output for a few days, the no load draw of the BMS then
>>>>>>>> takes the battery voltage low enough to shut the battery off.   This would
>>>>>>>> be a different situation with a knowledgeable owner onsite full time, but
>>>>>>>> for vacation properties, it will go into complete shut down, not coming
>>>>>>>> back.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Which gets into the manual and tech support for Solark:  its really
>>>>>>>> not clear what the different settings do, and how they interact.  I'm sure
>>>>>>>> there are engineers that know, but they aren't at Tech support. At least
>>>>>>>> you can change the programming on the touch screen, and you don't have to
>>>>>>>> get a quirky app up off grid to do basic changes.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> BTW, what happens when the developers quit keeping the App updated,
>>>>>>>> 10 years from now, and you can't access the programming?  Planned
>>>>>>>> Obsolescence?  That 33 yr old Trace Inverter is still doing its job.....
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Ray Walters
>>>>>>>> Remote Solar
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 5/12/2025 11:33 AM, MDElectricSolar via RE-wrenches wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> We have been using the Solark inverter for GTBB and off grid
>>>>>>>> clients. In the case of low battery cut out the solar does stay alive in
>>>>>>>> the background and will recharge the batteries when the sun comes out the
>>>>>>>> next day and turn itself back on and provide AC power output.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Michael D Nelson
>>>>>>>> MD Electric & Solar, Inc.
>>>>>>>> 707-684-0064 mobile
>>>>>>>> 707-884-1862 office
>>>>>>>> www.mdelectricsolar.com
>>>>>>>> www.facebook.com/mdelectricandsolar
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On May 12, 2025, at 10:13 AM, Ray Walters via RE-wrenches
>>>>>>>> <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>
>>>>>>>> <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> So the bypass switch gets the house power on, and I too always
>>>>>>>> recommend a hard bypass switch. However, you still need a 48 v power supply
>>>>>>>> to get the battery system back up, and that's becoming a serious pain in my
>>>>>>>> aging backside.  Until AIOs with Li+ batteries, lead acid would have enough
>>>>>>>> voltage to get the charge controller to come back on, and eventually the
>>>>>>>> customer could get the inverter back on too.  No special trip out.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> We need an independent circuit that would sense array voltage, and
>>>>>>>> wake up the battery, so it could take a charge: a backup battery for the
>>>>>>>> offgrid battery.  Without that, AIOs and Li+ batteries are not self healing
>>>>>>>> like Lead Acid.  We are going backwards fast, but with an amazing amount of
>>>>>>>> new Chinese technology driving the jalopy in reverse.  (Danger Will
>>>>>>>> Robinson)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Ray Walters
>>>>>>>> Remote Solar
>>>>>>>> On 5/12/2025 10:54 AM, Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> We always recommend a transfer switch to bypass the inverter and
>>>>>>>> send generator power to the loads. Most clients take us up on it. For
>>>>>>>> retrofits, sometimes there can be space limitations, however.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> As for the function of the AIO, there is no integrated mechanical
>>>>>>>> bypass, and since there is an internal relay controlling the
>>>>>>>> generator input (or smart load output on that breaker), I think the default
>>>>>>>> function is for the relay to open when the inverter turns off. AC voltage
>>>>>>>> on the load side of the breaker does not close the relay and turn the
>>>>>>>> inverter back on automatically.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Jason Szumlanski
>>>>>>>> Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group
>>>>>>>> NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP)
>>>>>>>> Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956
>>>>>>>> Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Mon, May 12, 2025 at 9:49 AM Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar via
>>>>>>>> RE-wrenches <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> All sounds wrong to me. Call Midnite.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Typically there is a AC bypass mechanical switch that allows the
>>>>>>>>> gen to bypass the inverter and power loads.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> *Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
>>>>>>>>> "we go where powerlines don't"
>>>>>>>>>    <http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/>https://offgridsolar1.com/ <https://offgridsolar1.com/>  <http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/>
>>>>>>>>> e-mail  offgridsolar at sti.net <offgridsolar at sti.net>
>>>>>>>>> text 209 813 0060*
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 2025-05-12 9:29 am, Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Maybe I'm missing something, but it seems like there is a flaw in
>>>>>>>>> the logic for how generator integration works with this product. Unlike
>>>>>>>>> some of the other AIOs, you can't put the generator on the Grid input in an
>>>>>>>>> off-grid scenario. You have to use the Generator smart load breaker, which
>>>>>>>>> isn't a dedicated generator input, but a programmable circuit. This is
>>>>>>>>> problematic because it seemingly has a normally open internal relay that
>>>>>>>>> closes only when the inverter is ON. At least, that's how it seems to work
>>>>>>>>> in my limited experience.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Why is this a problem? If the battery capacity drops below the low
>>>>>>>>> voltage cutoff, the inverter turns off. You have to turn the inverter ON
>>>>>>>>> for the generator relay to close so you can charge the battery, but since
>>>>>>>>> the battery is too low, the inverter won't turn on. You would have to
>>>>>>>>> reprogram the inverter to drop the cutoff voltage/SOC below the current
>>>>>>>>> battery state. For people who do not want to use AGS, or if AGS fails to
>>>>>>>>> start the generator for any reason, getting the generator to charge the
>>>>>>>>> battery manually is no easy task.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Moreover, turning the generator on manually when the inverter is
>>>>>>>>> in an OFF state will not pass power to the loads, and will not turn
>>>>>>>>> the inverter ON automatically. You have to get the inverter turned ON
>>>>>>>>> somehow so that the generator power can pass through to the loads. And
>>>>>>>>> since the startup sequence for this inverter is very quirky, non-intuitive,
>>>>>>>>> and unreliable, that makes the problem even worse. I'm not sure if you can
>>>>>>>>> even turn the inverter ON when there is generator input and the battery is
>>>>>>>>> too low. I don't think you can because the relay is open and the inverter
>>>>>>>>> doesn't even see generator voltage when it is in an OFF state.
>>>>>>>>> This seems like a serious oversight and a reason to go with one of
>>>>>>>>> the other AIOs on the market. I believe the Sol-Ark 15K and EG4 18kPV will
>>>>>>>>> both immediately power loads and start charging when the generator is on,
>>>>>>>>> regardless of whether the generator is connected to the Grid or Generator
>>>>>>>>> input. Any AC input immediately passes through to the loads. This is
>>>>>>>>> because those inverters stay "on" when a low battery condition is met, and
>>>>>>>>> they simply stop using the battery to invert power if the battery
>>>>>>>>> conditions do not allow it, based on the settings.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The logic of the Midnite AIOs turning "off" when battery cutoff is
>>>>>>>>> met and opening the generator relay doesn't make sense to me. Am I wrong
>>>>>>>>> about how this works?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Jason Szumlanski
>>>>>>>>> Principal Solar Designer
>>>>>>>>> Florida Solar Design Group
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
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