[RE-wrenches] Tigo inverter experience

Sat Feb 15 11:53:39 PST 2025

It is from IMO. If someone buys enough volume the price might be closer to
reasonable, but with installation labor it will always be a premium
product. It might be worthwhile for off grid projects.

On Sat, Feb 15, 2025, 11:47 AM Glenn via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> I thought the FireRaptor was an IMO device?
>
> -Glenn
>
> On Feb 15, 2025 10:47, Bradley Bassett via RE-wrenches <
> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>
> Oh, I just looked to see if the FireRaptor is still somewhat pricey, and
> it looks like they might be hard to find if available at all. The only
> source I found had them for double the price they used to be from OutBack.
>
> On Sat, Feb 15, 2025 at 7:44 AM Bradley Bassett <bbassett2 at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> You asked... the IMO FireRaptors I've installed seem to be completely
> reliable since they have their own separate 24VDC activation circuit. I do
> kind of like that the circuits are dead while working on them, but the
> extra wiring is of course more work. There is a huge amount of wire mgmt to
> do since the leads are all 6ft long, both the PV output circuits and the
> 24VDC activation circuits. Best is the fact that they work on ANY charge
> control or inverter. With older modules like my REC260's you can put two
> modules per FireRaptor.
>
> It would be fine by me if RSD was no longer a requirement.
> Doesn't Tesla have a UL listing for array level RSD now?
> BTW the AP smart does not work with Classic charge controllers.
>
> On Sat, Feb 15, 2025 at 6:07 AM david quattro via RE-wrenches <
> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>
> RSD is the worst thing to happen to solar. Has anyone considered civil
> disobedience?
>     I wonder what would happen if all the installers banded together and
> refused, as a united industry ‘brotherhood.’ WE are the ones stuck with the
> bullshit in the aftermath.
>      I’m not being snarky here , this a genuine question to the group:
> Does anyone have *good* experience with RSD?   i.e. you’re really glad
> RSD was there, and you genuinely feel safer?  you’re glad and happy to
> comply with this code and you look forward to continuing to use RSD for the
> rest of your career?
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, Feb 14, 2025 at 3:40 PM Ray Walters via RE-wrenches <
> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>
> it seems silly that we are required to install these extra pieces of
> equipment for added "safety", that are actually a fire hazard on the roof.
> Just to survey again: how many homes have been saved by RSD?  How many fire
> fighters have actually actuated the RSD system, so that they could hack
> through the array to vent the roof?
>
> I think it should only be required if you have covered so much of the roof
> with PV, that the fire dept can't access uncovered roof to do their
> venting.  The whole premise of RSD is flawed.  IMHO, its just another
> effort to block the wider adoption of solar.
>
> When it comes to off grid, RSD causes such a decrease in reliability to
> amount to a decrease in safety, due to possible loss of communications,
> water, and heat.  Add the fire hazard and RSD is really not making our
> customers' lives better.
>
> Ray Walters
> Remote Solar
> On 2/14/2025 3:52 PM, Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches wrote:
>
> I had a site (not my install) with a ground rack and these TS4-F units,
> and they exhibited the exact same burn characteristics. At least half of
> them were burned up to some degree.
>
> Jason Szumlanski
> Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group
> NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP)
> Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956
> Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208
>
>
> On Fri, Feb 14, 2025 at 2:11 PM David Buckner via RE-wrenches <
> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>
> Hello Nick,
>
> Yes, it's the TS4-F units.  We have made every effort to install to the
> specs provided (as the goal post and solutions keep changing) but have
> still seen RSD's start to swell and/or burn over time.  We've separated DC
> wires and home runs and stayed within the home run complete circuit
> distance that is recommended.  We've used the "Pure Signal" transmitter
> solution that syncs up the signaling from multiple inverters in an effort
> to avoid the "chatter" that starts when the RSD is failing (see video below
> about that).
>
> It's all field R&D at our expense in my opinion.  Sadly, I'd be happy if
> the RSD failed and didn't work but it starts to work in overdrive until it
> burns up and causes an arc.  These photos below are from a site where we
> got lucky and the fire didn't spread.  Below the photos is a link to a
> video of Tigo and Mayfield discussing the crosstalk issue.
>
>
>
>
>
> Here is a video discussion of the cross-talk and signal corruption issues
> that are the supposed cause of the unit's failure's:
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L_1_0Ofuhao
> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L_1_0Ofuhao>
> Mayfield Renewables and Tigo Energy - Crosstalk Workshop
> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L_1_0Ofuhao>
> A deep dive into how to design PLC (Power-Line Communication) based solar
> rapid shutdown systems in order to minimize cross-talk and other signal
> integrity issues. This is a technical presentation meant to assist with the
> design of large scale solar rooftop arrays that use PLC-based rapid
> shutdown systems, which are used to meet the rapid ...
> www.youtube.com
>
>
> David Buckner
>
> President
>
> 917-848-0215
>
> 718-389-1545
>
> 41 Box Street 2nd Floor, Brooklyn, NY 11222
> ------------------------------
> *From:* RE-wrenches <re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org> on behalf
> of Nick Lucchese via RE-wrenches <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>
> *Sent:* Friday, February 14, 2025 1:26 PM
> *To:* RE-wrenches <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>
> *Cc:* Nick Lucchese <lucchesesolar at gmail.com>
> *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Tigo inverter experience
>
> CAUTION: External Email.
> Greetings David,
>
> Can you elaborate on which products of theirs failed catastrophically?
> Their TS4-F single and double units by chance? My experience has been an
> annoying occurrence where certain installed units lock up
> requring replacement after the array is shut down for O&M tasks but nothing
> that starts burning as you mentioned. I've still got a reasonable amount of
> them in my inventory but would rather not deploy if they're "burning" in
> some way.
>
> Thanks for sharing your experience, Nick
>
> *We've had catastrophic failures with the RSDs and have heard from plenty
> of others that have had the same.  The company denies and deflects and
> blames the installer until you are fatigued.  A product that uses power
> line communication that can start burning when the signal gets corrupted
> should not be allowed to remain on the market.*
>
> *David Buckner*
> *SES*
>
>
> David Buckner
>
> President
>
> Solar Energy Systems
>
> 917-848-0215
>
> 718-389-1545
>
> dbuckner at solaresystems.com
>
> www.solaresystems.com
> <https://us.content.exclaimer.net/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.solaresystems.com%2F&tenantid=sjl0rdWaEe6F-WBFvdNAXQ&templateid=933619bad6e2ee11aaf06045bdd55b16&excomponentid=W0znjuLBICxfJOZwpEisk1w6Uz7kRcz8RFh31bsCZu4&excomponenttype=Link&signature=oLHGWCDHeQYPxuVijopczXguVIz2A9gWA29emAtwvdbqV2XsAnsbVfPJR3OQHtcxck-4zeNWEHrxwAX_LXCUOBXnvLDZkSB3Ue09sLzQcUNKGxMLclBt5peel7iiM1neHKnk8UctTRnOeUfIagifjZaGWicP4Wi23eUaL-JSNh0iUlYWH5Y2kOEt_QGU-R6LtdhPzR8aNOqjq8ttGuksaSFX3YQorUNiBDkXDGXmmCSiiNgljGMekvYiEvoXMsCe_CC1DpnfHsaH45ZBD8L442uACHbkOuyDJ-IG20zpBYXGK3TzDh-GW4efLwZfi6MUcJohrIgQQag5JDhSynWoDQ&v=1&imprintMessageId=70f4909c-5e4b-4d4e-a4f1-8a28a937dd26>
>
> 41 Box Street 2nd Floor, Brooklyn, NY 11222
>
> On Thu, Feb 13, 2025 at 6:06 PM David Buckner via RE-wrenches <
> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>
> We've had catastrophic failures with the RSDs and have heard from plenty
> of others that have had the same.  The company denies and deflects and
> blames the installer until you are fatigued.  A product that uses power
> line communication that can start burning when the signal gets corrupted
> should not be allowed to remain on the market.
>
> David Buckner
> SES
>
>
> David Buckner
>
> President
>
> Solar Energy Systems
>
> 917-848-0215
>
> 718-389-1545
>
> dbuckner at solaresystems.com
>
> www.solaresystems.com
> <https://us.content.exclaimer.net/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.solaresystems.com%2F&tenantid=sjl0rdWaEe6F-WBFvdNAXQ&templateid=933619bad6e2ee11aaf06045bdd55b16&excomponentid=W0znjuLBICxfJOZwpEisk1w6Uz7kRcz8RFh31bsCZu4&excomponenttype=Link&signature=oLHGWCDHeQYPxuVijopczXguVIz2A9gWA29emAtwvdbqV2XsAnsbVfPJR3OQHtcxck-4zeNWEHrxwAX_LXCUOBXnvLDZkSB3Ue09sLzQcUNKGxMLclBt5peel7iiM1neHKnk8UctTRnOeUfIagifjZaGWicP4Wi23eUaL-JSNh0iUlYWH5Y2kOEt_QGU-R6LtdhPzR8aNOqjq8ttGuksaSFX3YQorUNiBDkXDGXmmCSiiNgljGMekvYiEvoXMsCe_CC1DpnfHsaH45ZBD8L442uACHbkOuyDJ-IG20zpBYXGK3TzDh-GW4efLwZfi6MUcJohrIgQQag5JDhSynWoDQ&v=1&imprintMessageId=70f4909c-5e4b-4d4e-a4f1-8a28a937dd26>
>
> 41 Box Street 2nd Floor, Brooklyn, NY 11222
>
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> ------------------------------
> *From:* RE-wrenches <re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org> on behalf
> of Howie Michaelson via RE-wrenches <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>
> *Sent:* Thursday, February 13, 2025 7:05 PM
> *To:* RE-wrenches <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>
> *Cc:* Howie Michaelson <Howie.Michaelson at gmail.com>
> *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Tigo
>
>
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