<div dir="auto">It is from IMO. If someone buys enough volume the price might be closer to reasonable, but with installation labor it will always be a premium product. It might be worthwhile for off grid projects. </div><br><div class="gmail_quote gmail_quote_container"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sat, Feb 15, 2025, 11:47 AM Glenn via RE-wrenches <<a href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="auto"><div>I thought the FireRaptor was an IMO device?</div><div><br></div><div data-smartmail="gmail_signature">-Glenn</div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Feb 15, 2025 10:47, Bradley Bassett via RE-wrenches <<a href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>> wrote:<br type="attribution"><blockquote style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">Oh, I just looked to see if the FireRaptor is still somewhat pricey, and it looks like they might be hard to find if available at all. The only source I found had them for double the price they used to be from OutBack. </div><br><div><div dir="ltr">On Sat, Feb 15, 2025 at 7:44 AM Bradley Bassett <<a href="mailto:bbassett2@gmail.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">bbassett2@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">You asked... the IMO FireRaptors I've installed seem to be completely reliable since they have their own separate 24VDC activation circuit. I do kind of like that the circuits are dead while working on them, but the extra wiring is of course more work. There is a huge amount of wire mgmt to do since the leads are all 6ft long, both the PV output circuits and the 24VDC activation circuits. Best is the fact that they work on ANY charge control or inverter. With older modules like my REC260's you can put two modules per FireRaptor. <div><br></div><div>It would be fine by me if RSD was no longer a requirement. </div><div>Doesn't Tesla have a UL listing for array level RSD now?<div>BTW the AP smart does not work with Classic charge controllers. </div></div></div><br><div><div dir="ltr">On Sat, Feb 15, 2025 at 6:07 AM david quattro via RE-wrenches <<a href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="auto">RSD is the worst thing to happen to solar. Has anyone considered civil disobedience?</div><div dir="auto"> I wonder what would happen if all the installers banded together and refused, as a united industry ‘brotherhood.’ WE are the ones stuck with the bullshit in the aftermath.</div><div dir="auto"> I’m not being snarky here , this a genuine question to the group: Does anyone have <u>good</u> experience with RSD? i.e. you’re really glad RSD was there, and you genuinely feel safer? you’re glad and happy to comply with this code and you look forward to continuing to use RSD for the rest of your career?</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div><br><div><div dir="ltr">On Fri, Feb 14, 2025 at 3:40 PM Ray Walters via RE-wrenches <<a href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><u></u>
<div>
<p>it seems silly that we are required to install these extra pieces
of equipment for added "safety", that are actually a fire hazard
on the roof. Just to survey again: how many homes have been saved
by RSD? How many fire fighters have actually actuated the RSD
system, so that they could hack through the array to vent the
roof? <br>
</p>
<p>I think it should only be required if you have covered so much of
the roof with PV, that the fire dept can't access uncovered roof
to do their venting. The whole premise of RSD is flawed. IMHO,
its just another effort to block the wider adoption of solar. </p>
<p>When it comes to off grid, RSD causes such a decrease in
reliability to amount to a decrease in safety, due to possible
loss of communications, water, and heat. Add the fire hazard and
RSD is really not making our customers' lives better. <br>
</p>
<p>Ray Walters<br>
Remote Solar<br>
</p></div><div>
<div>On 2/14/2025 3:52 PM, Jason Szumlanski
via RE-wrenches wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote>
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div><span style="font-family:'arial','helvetica',sans-serif">I had a
site (not my install) with a ground rack and these </span><span style="font-family:'arial','helvetica',sans-serif">TS4-F</span><span style="font-family:'arial','helvetica',sans-serif"> <span style="font-family:'arial','helvetica',sans-serif">units,
and they exhibited the exact same burn characteristics.
At least half of them were burned up to some degree.</span></span><br clear="all">
</div>
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr"><br>
Jason Szumlanski
<div><span style="font-family:'roboto','robotodraft','helvetica','arial',sans-serif;font-size:13px;color:rgb(51,51,51)">Principal
Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group</span><br style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:'roboto','robotodraft','helvetica','arial',sans-serif;font-size:13px">
<span style="font-family:'roboto','robotodraft','helvetica','arial',sans-serif;font-size:13px;color:rgb(51,51,51)">NABCEP
Certified Solar Professional (PVIP)</span><br style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:'roboto','robotodraft','helvetica','arial',sans-serif;font-size:13px">
<span style="font-family:'roboto','robotodraft','helvetica','arial',sans-serif;font-size:13px;color:rgb(51,51,51)">Florida
State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956</span></div>
<div><font face="Roboto, RobotoDraft, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif" style="font-family:'roboto','robotodraft','helvetica','arial',sans-serif;color:rgb(51,51,51)">Florida
Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208</font></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
</div>
<br>
<div>
<div dir="ltr">On Fri, Feb 14, 2025 at
2:11 PM David Buckner via RE-wrenches <<a href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div style="font-family:'aptos','aptos_embeddedfont','aptos_msfontservice','calibri','helvetica',sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
Hello Nick,</div>
<div style="font-family:'aptos','aptos_embeddedfont','aptos_msfontservice','calibri','helvetica',sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:'aptos','aptos_embeddedfont','aptos_msfontservice','calibri','helvetica',sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
Yes, it's the TS4-F units. We have made every effort
to install to the specs provided (as the goal post and
solutions keep changing) but have still seen RSD's
start to swell and/or burn over time. We've separated
DC wires and home runs and stayed within the home run
complete circuit distance that is recommended. We've
used the "Pure Signal" transmitter solution that syncs
up the signaling from multiple inverters in an effort
to avoid the "chatter" that starts when the RSD is
failing (see video below about that). </div>
<div style="font-family:'aptos','aptos_embeddedfont','aptos_msfontservice','calibri','helvetica',sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:'aptos','aptos_embeddedfont','aptos_msfontservice','calibri','helvetica',sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
It's all field R&D at our expense in my opinion.
Sadly, I'd be happy if the RSD failed and didn't work
but it starts to work in overdrive until it burns up
and causes an arc. These photos below are from a site
where we got lucky and the fire didn't spread. Below
the photos is a link to a video of Tigo and Mayfield
discussing the crosstalk issue. </div>
<div style="font-family:'aptos','aptos_embeddedfont','aptos_msfontservice','calibri','helvetica',sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:'aptos','aptos_embeddedfont','aptos_msfontservice','calibri','helvetica',sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<img style="width:420px;max-width:100%"></div>
<div style="font-family:'aptos','aptos_embeddedfont','aptos_msfontservice','calibri','helvetica',sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<img style="width:428px;max-width:100%"></div>
<div style="font-family:'aptos','aptos_embeddedfont','aptos_msfontservice','calibri','helvetica',sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:'aptos','aptos_embeddedfont','aptos_msfontservice','calibri','helvetica',sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<img style="width:420px;max-width:100%"></div>
<div style="font-family:'aptos','aptos_embeddedfont','aptos_msfontservice','calibri','helvetica',sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:'aptos','aptos_embeddedfont','aptos_msfontservice','calibri','helvetica',sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<img style="width:774px;max-width:100%"></div>
<div style="font-family:'aptos','aptos_embeddedfont','aptos_msfontservice','calibri','helvetica',sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:'aptos','aptos_embeddedfont','aptos_msfontservice','calibri','helvetica',sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:'aptos','aptos_embeddedfont','aptos_msfontservice','calibri','helvetica',sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
Here is a video discussion of the cross-talk and
signal corruption issues that are the supposed cause
of the unit's failure's:
<a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L_1_0Ofuhao" style="font-family:'aptos','aptos_embeddedfont','aptos_msfontservice','calibri','helvetica',sans-serif" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L_1_0Ofuhao</a></div>
<div>
<div style="width:100%;margin-top:16px;margin-bottom:16px;max-width:800px;min-width:424px">
<table style="padding:12px 36px 12px 12px;width:100%;border-width:1px;border-style:solid;border-radius:2px;border-color:rgb(200,200,200)"><tbody><tr style="border-spacing:0px" valign="top"><td>
<div style="margin-right:12px;height:180px;width:240px">
<a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L_1_0Ofuhao" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"><img alt="" style="width:300px;max-width:100%"></a></div>
</td><td style="width:100%">
<div style="font-size:21px;font-weight:300;margin-right:8px;font-family:'wf_segoe-ui_light','segoe ui light','segoe wp light','segoe ui','segoe wp','tahoma','arial',sans-serif;margin-bottom:12px">
<a style="text-decoration:none;font-family:'wf_segoe-ui_light','segoe ui light','segoe wp light','segoe ui','segoe wp','tahoma','arial',sans-serif" href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L_1_0Ofuhao" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">Mayfield
Renewables and Tigo Energy - Crosstalk
Workshop</a></div>
<div style="font-size:14px;max-height:100px;font-family:'wf_segoe-ui_normal','segoe ui','segoe wp','tahoma','arial',sans-serif;margin-bottom:12px;margin-right:8px;color:rgb(102,102,102)">
A deep dive into how to design PLC
(Power-Line Communication) based solar
rapid shutdown systems in order to
minimize cross-talk and other signal
integrity issues. This is a technical
presentation meant to assist with the
design of large scale solar rooftop arrays
that use PLC-based rapid shutdown systems,
which are used to meet the rapid ...</div>
<div style="font-size:14px;font-family:'wf_segoe-ui_normal','segoe ui','segoe wp','tahoma','arial',sans-serif;color:rgb(166,166,166)">
<a href="http://www.youtube.com" style="font-family:'wf_segoe-ui_normal','segoe ui','segoe wp','tahoma','arial',sans-serif" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">www.youtube.com</a></div>
</td></tr></tbody></table>
</div>
</div>
<div style="font-family:'aptos','aptos_embeddedfont','aptos_msfontservice','calibri','helvetica',sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<br>
</div>
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<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;font-family:'arial';color:rgb(87,101,118)">David Buckner<span style="font-family:'remialcxesans';font-size:1px;line-height:1px;color:rgb(255,255,255)"><span style="font-family:'template-m98mzebaee6q8gbfvdvbfg'"></span><span style="font-family:'zone-1'"></span><span style="font-family:'zones-aq'"></span></span></p>
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<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;font-family:'arial';color:rgb(87,101,118)">President</p>
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<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;font-family:'arial';color:rgb(87,101,118)"><a href="tel:917-848-0215" style="text-decoration:none;font-family:'arial';color:rgb(87,101,118)" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">917-848-0215</a></p>
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<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;font-family:'arial';color:rgb(87,101,118)">41 Box Street 2nd Floor, Brooklyn, NY 11222<br>
</p>
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<hr style="display:inline-block;width:98%">
<div dir="ltr"><font face="Calibri, sans-serif" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:'calibri',sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><b style="font-family:'calibri',sans-serif">From:</b> RE-wrenches <<a href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org" style="font-family:'calibri',sans-serif" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>>
on behalf of Nick Lucchese via RE-wrenches <<a href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" style="font-family:'calibri',sans-serif" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>><br>
<b style="font-family:'calibri',sans-serif">Sent:</b> Friday, February 14, 2025 1:26 PM<br>
<b style="font-family:'calibri',sans-serif">To:</b> RE-wrenches <<a href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" style="font-family:'calibri',sans-serif" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>><br>
<b style="font-family:'calibri',sans-serif">Cc:</b> Nick Lucchese <<a href="mailto:lucchesesolar@gmail.com" style="font-family:'calibri',sans-serif" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">lucchesesolar@gmail.com</a>><br>
<b style="font-family:'calibri',sans-serif">Subject:</b> Re: [RE-wrenches] Tigo inverter
experience</font>
<div> </div>
</div>
<div>
<div style="width:100%;border:1px solid rgb(156,101,0);padding:2pt;background-color:rgb(255,235,156)">
CAUTION: External Email.</div>
<div>
<div dir="ltr">Greetings David,
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Can you elaborate on which products of theirs
failed catastrophically? Their TS4-F single and
double units by chance? My experience has been
an annoying occurrence where certain installed
units lock up requring replacement after the
array is shut down for O&M tasks but nothing
that starts burning as you mentioned. I've still
got a reasonable amount of them in my inventory
but would rather not deploy if they're "burning"
in some way.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Thanks for sharing your experience, Nick</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div><i>We've had catastrophic failures with the
RSDs and have heard from plenty of others
that have had the same. The company denies
and deflects and blames the installer until
you are fatigued. A product that uses power
line communication that can start burning
when the signal gets corrupted should not be
allowed to remain on the market.</i></div>
<div><i><br>
</i></div>
<div><i>David Buckner</i></div>
<div><i>SES</i></div>
<br>
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<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;font-family:'arial';color:rgb(87,101,118)">David Buckner<span style="font-family:'remialcxesans';font-size:1px;line-height:1px;color:rgb(255,255,255)"><span style="font-family:'template-uhk2k-lwee6q8gbfvdvbfg'"></span><span style="font-family:'zone-1'"></span><span style="font-family:'zones-aq'"></span></span></p>
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<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;font-family:'arial';color:rgb(87,101,118)">41 Box Street 2nd Floor, Brooklyn, NY 11222</p>
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<div>
<div dir="ltr">On Thu, Feb 13, 2025 at 6:06 PM
David Buckner via RE-wrenches <<a href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<div>We've had catastrophic failures with the
RSDs and have heard from plenty of others
that have had the same. The company denies
and deflects and blames the installer until
you are fatigued. A product that uses power
line communication that can start burning
when the signal gets corrupted should not be
allowed to remain on the market.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>David Buckner</div>
<div>SES</div>
<br>
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<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;font-family:'arial';color:rgb(87,101,118)">David Buckner<span style="font-family:'remialcxesans';font-size:1px;line-height:1px;color:rgb(255,255,255)"><span style="font-family:'template-uhk2k-lwee6q8gbfvdvbfg'"></span><span style="font-family:'zone-1'"></span><span style="font-family:'zones-aq'"></span></span></p>
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<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;font-family:'arial';color:rgb(87,101,118)">President</p>
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<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;font-family:'arial';color:rgb(87,101,118)"><span style="text-decoration:underline;font-family:'arial'">Solar Energy Systems</span></p>
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<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;font-family:'arial';color:rgb(87,101,118)"><a href="mailto:dbuckner@solaresystems.com" style="text-decoration:none;font-family:'arial';color:rgb(87,101,118)" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">dbuckner@solaresystems.com</a></p>
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<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;font-family:'arial';color:rgb(87,101,118)">41 Box Street 2nd Floor, Brooklyn, NY 11222</p>
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<hr style="display:inline-block;width:98%">
<div dir="ltr"><font face="Calibri, sans-serif" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:'calibri',sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><b style="font-family:'calibri',sans-serif">From:</b>
RE-wrenches <<a href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org" style="font-family:'calibri',sans-serif" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>>
on behalf of Howie Michaelson via
RE-wrenches <<a href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" style="font-family:'calibri',sans-serif" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>><br>
<b style="font-family:'calibri',sans-serif">Sent:</b> Thursday, February 13, 2025
7:05 PM<br>
<b style="font-family:'calibri',sans-serif">To:</b> RE-wrenches <<a href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" style="font-family:'calibri',sans-serif" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>><br>
<b style="font-family:'calibri',sans-serif">Cc:</b> Howie Michaelson <<a href="mailto:Howie.Michaelson@gmail.com" style="font-family:'calibri',sans-serif" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">Howie.Michaelson@gmail.com</a>><br>
<b style="font-family:'calibri',sans-serif">Subject:</b> Re: [RE-wrenches] Tigo
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