[RE-wrenches] Zero sell permitting

Wed Feb 12 11:37:34 PST 2025

Regarding the insurance question, unfortunately I have to report the answer
is yes. The Florida insurance market is a disgusting mess in general, but
many insurers have started to reject insuring solar panels altogether, and
some will not allow netmetering. We also have issues with insurers not
allowing Tier 2 interconnections, which means anything over 11,764 Watts
DC.

The insurers simply do not understand the risk. The Tier 2 resistance is
about insurance not understanding the liability coverage that is necessary
for the interconnection paperwork. Usually this is handled with a separate
umbrella policy of $1 million. It is ridiculous because the same
liabilities exist for the home insurer on a Tier 1 or Tier 2 system. The
additional insurance for a Tier 2 system does not get the insurer off the
hook for a liability claim under $1 million.

The insurers that are rejecting netmetering are trying to claim that
selling excess power to the utility makes the property owner a "business,"
and commercial insurance requirements kick in.

They are just clueless, but our legislature is spineless against the
insurance industry. It's so bad, it almost seems that the utilities are
conspiring with the insurance companies to make my life miserable and
thwart residential adoption of solar energy. I wouldn't put it past them.
The Public Service Commission is also in the utility lobbyists' pockets.
Frankly, it's amazing that we still have netmetering at this point.

Jason Szumlanski
Florida Solar Design Group

On Tue, Feb 11, 2025, 11:16 PM Ray Walters via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> I agree with Jason, the utility doesn't have a say in the matter.  Pull
> only the necessary permits with the local AHJ, and worry about utility
> approval only if the AHJ requires it.   I've worked in jurisdictions from
> Hawaii to Puerto Rico, Oklahoma,  Haiti, Morocco, Tansania, New Mexico,
> Mexico, Arizona, Wyoming, California, Colorado, and Texas.
>
> You pull the permit, don't ask too many questions, and only get the
> utility or others involved when there's no way around them.
>
> We have a lot of folks in 2025 over stepping their authority.  Its our job
> to hold the line, and get the job done safely.
>
> Oh and finally, this concept that insurance companies are going to drop
> coverage?  Has that actually happened?  Once again, don't over think it,
> respond my friends to actual problems, not ones we dream up in our late
> night fevers.
>
> We are the installers of the solution, we are not the problem.
>
> Ray Walters
> Remote Solar
> On 2/11/2025 7:03 PM, Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches wrote:
>
> Zero sell is a bit of an ambiguous term, at least as far as inverter
> manufacturers are concerned. For example, Enphase offers a "no export" grid
> profile for it's microinverters, but it relies on consumption CTs that are
> not completely accurate and the speed at which it can curtail solar will
> inevitably allow some power to flow in reverse through the meter. We have a
> municipal utility here that flips out if a watt of reverse current is
> detected. They immediately fire off a nasty letter to the owner threatening
> to disconnect their electric service if not rectified immediately.
>
> So be careful about what equipment you are installing and whether it is
> truly capable of actual no export. If that is the case, it's behind the
> meter, and here in Florida technically the utility would have no leg to
> stand on in terms of restricting it. No netmetering agreement would be
> required in my opinion.
>
> Jason Szumlanski
> Florida Solar Design Group
>
> On Tue, Feb 11, 2025, 4:28 PM Jay via RE-wrenches <
> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>
>> When doing a zero sell install. What are people’s experience with needing
>> utility approval?
>>
>> It would seem as being behind the meter you don’t need it. But just
>> wondering as I’ve had a few people ask me especially from California given
>> the ridiculously high electricity costs.
>>
>> Thanks in advance
>> Jay
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