[RE-wrenches] Module snail trails
Jon Dixon
jon at dixonpowersystems.com
Mon Oct 28 12:39:56 PDT 2024
Jay,
I thought it was broken when I first saw it also but its not. I agree
that it is snail trails which are cause from chemical reaction of the
different components with moisture. Generally low grade module.
I don't know how many modules have snail trails. The array is 10 rows by
20 columns but in the fifteen I could see four were affected.
Thanks Jon
Jonathan Dixon
Dixon Power Systems
3250 N 20th St Ste 1
Lincoln, NE 68521
402-467-3240
jon at dixonpowersystems.com
On 10/24/2024 5:40 PM, Jay wrote:
> That one cell you have a picture of sure looks suspicious to me.
> Especially given the good IR picture.
> It looks it’s physically broken, right about where a hard hat would
> rest while moving it.
> That level of hot spot can’t be good.
>
> There are two kinds of things that can look sorta the same. Snail
> trails I thought were from a kind of contamination which leaves a
> trail of micro bubbles. It’s from the assembly process and I think
> static factors into it. The close up photo sure looks like this to me.
>
> The other are micro fractures from all sorts of reasons. Actual damage
> to the cell which is usually visible.
>
> Are there just a few suspicious panels or lots?
>
> Jay
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>> On Oct 24, 2024, at 10:55 AM, Thomas Hall via RE-wrenches
>> <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Hello Jon.
>>
>> Another thought……Was the site using the SMA combiner boxes with the
>> 3 SMA Tripower 15000TL-US -10?
>>
>> We have had ground faults occur there internally. If it has a green
>> test button inside the combiner box unit (polarity tester) …. replace
>> the combiner with a different manufactures equipment.
>>
>> I believe the model is called SMA 1000-US-11 String Combiner w/
>> Disconnect.
>>
>> *Thomas Hall *
>>
>> Solar Specialty Group INC C-33998
>>
>> dba Specialty Group Electric
>>
>> *808-854-9539 <tel:808-854-9539>*
>>
>> thomashall at solarspecialtygroup.com
>> <mailto:thomashall at solarspecialtygroup.com>
>>
>> www.solarspecialtygroup.com <http://www.solarspecialtygroup.com>
>>
>> Certified Thermographer
>>
>> *NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional **® **031310-92*
>>
>> *From: *RE-wrenches <re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org> on
>> behalf of Jon Dixon via RE-wrenches <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>
>> *Date: *Wednesday, October 23, 2024 at 12:04 PM
>> *To: *re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
>> <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>
>> *Cc: *Jon Dixon <jon at dixonpowersystems.com>
>> *Subject: *Re: [RE-wrenches] Module snail trails
>>
>> Thanks Bryan,
>>
>> I do not know the PV connector types for the modules or extension cables
>> we have not started working on it. I need to put a plan together for the
>> customer first.
>> Good to know about the Amphenol H4 issues.
>>
>> Thank You
>>
>> Jonathan Dixon
>> Dixon Power Systems
>> 3250 N 20th St Ste 1
>> Lincoln, NE 68521
>> 402-467-3240
>> jon at dixonpowersystems.com
>>
>> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >
>> > Message: 1
>> > Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2024 16:44:51 +0000
>> > From: Bryan Norkunas <bryan at pv-cables.com>
>> > To: "re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org"
>> > <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>, "jon at dixonpowersystems.com"
>> > <jon at dixonpowersystems.com>
>> > Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Module snail trails
>> > Message-ID:
>> >
>> <DM6PR06MB509799A96435CE8318649E11E24D2 at DM6PR06MB5097.namprd06.prod.outlook.com>
>> >
>> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"
>> >
>> > Jon,
>> >
>> > Do you recall which PV connectors were on the modules and what they
>> used for extension cables?
>> >
>> > Around that time, Amphenol H4 connectors had issues due to the
>> plastic housings failing and allowing water into the connections.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Bryan Norkunas
>> >
>> > PV-Cables Inc.
>> >
>> > 989 Milton Ave Ste 1D
>> >
>> > Ferndale CA 95536
>> >
>> > (707) 923-3000 office
>> >
>> > www.pv-cables.com<http://www.pv-cables.com/
>> <http://www.pv-cables.com/>>
>> >
>> > [cid:aa320544-f89d-44fc-a3e9-bb468c2d9953]
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > [cid:867e1cba-ab13-4a98-9ecf-200189c32b6d] Please print only if
>> necessary.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > NOTE: This email message and any attachments are for the sole use
>> of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and/or
>> privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or
>> distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient,
>> please contact the sender by replying to this email, and destroy all
>> copies of the original message.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > ________________________________
>> > From: RE-wrenches <re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org> on
>> behalf of Jon Dixon via RE-wrenches <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>
>> > Sent: Wednesday, October 23, 2024 9:07 AM
>> > To: re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
>> <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>
>> > Cc: Jon Dixon <jon at dixonpowersystems.com>
>> > Subject: [RE-wrenches] Module snail trails
>> >
>> > Hello All,
>> >
>> > I have a local utility with a 50Kw array installed in 2015
>> consisting of 200 ReneSola 250w modules and 3 SMA Tripower 15000TL-US
>> -10. They are having Arc fault code on two of the inverters. This has
>> been going on for a few years now. It happens a couple times a year
>> generally after a large rain. They just reset the code and it comes
>> back to life.
>> >
>> > They gave me a walk through and we noticed that a number of modules
>> have snail trails. I have attached a closeup picture I took and IR
>> views of affected module and non affected. It was a 90 deg day when
>> the utility took the IR pictures.
>> >
>> > Causes for snail trails that I found:
>> >
>> > * The difference in chemical properties of EVA foils and the
>> silver contacts
>> > * The degradation extent of the EVA material
>> > * Water vapor permeability of the solar panel?s backsheet material
>> >
>> > I did find that if you have snail trails you will have micro
>> fractures. I did see some info that micro fractures could cause arc
>> faults.
>> >
>> > Finally my question is can snail trails cause arc faults also?
>> >
>> >
>> > Thanks Jon
>> >
>> > --
>> > Jonathan Dixon
>> > Dixon Power Systems
>> > 3250 N 20th St Ste 1
>> > Lincoln, NE 68521
>> > 402-467-3240
>> > jon at dixonpowersystems.com<mailto:jon at dixonpowersystems.com>
>> > -------------- next part --------------
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>> >
>> > ------------------------------
>> >
>> > Message: 2
>> > Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2024 17:09:53 +0000
>> > From: Bryan Norkunas <bryan at pv-cables.com>
>> > To: "re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org"
>> > <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>, "jon at dixonpowersystems.com"
>> > <jon at dixonpowersystems.com>
>> > Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Module snail trails
>> > Message-ID:
>> >
>> <DM6PR06MB50977334C1AA938F24F80930E24D2 at DM6PR06MB5097.namprd06.prod.outlook.com>
>> >
>> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"
>> >
>> > Looking at the pictures again, I wonder if there might be a pinhole
>> in the back lamination that is allowing water into the module.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Bryan Norkunas
>> >
>> > PV-Cables Inc.
>> >
>> > 989 Milton Ave Ste 1D
>> >
>> > Ferndale CA 95536
>> >
>> > (707) 923-3000 office
>> >
>> > www.pv-cables.com<http://www.pv-cables.com/
>> <http://www.pv-cables.com/>>
>> >
>> > [cid:8b840384-c5f3-42a6-b643-c70a0c8359f7]
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > [cid:359044c7-87e0-453e-8b12-d03863f07a98] Please print only if
>> necessary.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > NOTE: This email message and any attachments are for the sole use
>> of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and/or
>> privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or
>> distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient,
>> please contact the sender by replying to this email, and destroy all
>> copies of the original message.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > ________________________________
>> > From: RE-wrenches <re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org> on
>> behalf of Jon Dixon via RE-wrenches <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>
>> > Sent: Wednesday, October 23, 2024 9:07 AM
>> > To: re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
>> <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>
>> > Cc: Jon Dixon <jon at dixonpowersystems.com>
>> > Subject: [RE-wrenches] Module snail trails
>> >
>> > Hello All,
>> >
>> > I have a local utility with a 50Kw array installed in 2015
>> consisting of 200 ReneSola 250w modules and 3 SMA Tripower 15000TL-US
>> -10. They are having Arc fault code on two of the inverters. This has
>> been going on for a few years now. It happens a couple times a year
>> generally after a large rain. They just reset the code and it comes
>> back to life.
>> >
>> > They gave me a walk through and we noticed that a number of modules
>> have snail trails. I have attached a closeup picture I took and IR
>> views of affected module and non affected. It was a 90 deg day when
>> the utility took the IR pictures.
>> >
>> > Causes for snail trails that I found:
>> >
>> > * The difference in chemical properties of EVA foils and the
>> silver contacts
>> > * The degradation extent of the EVA material
>> > * Water vapor permeability of the solar panel?s backsheet material
>> >
>> > I did find that if you have snail trails you will have micro
>> fractures. I did see some info that micro fractures could cause arc
>> faults.
>> >
>> > Finally my question is can snail trails cause arc faults also?
>> >
>> >
>> > Thanks Jon
>> >
>> > --
>> > Jonathan Dixon
>> > Dixon Power Systems
>> > 3250 N 20th St Ste 1
>> > Lincoln, NE 68521
>> > 402-467-3240
>> > jon at dixonpowersystems.com<mailto:jon at dixonpowersystems.com>
>> > -------------- next part --------------
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